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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:57 am 
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Location: dundee land of many plates
thats interesting fae fife, the said cabby was originily pulled by the cab enforcement officer for having his plate inside his cab, he had to go to the testing area to get the plate put on the outside of his taxi, he then returned to the rank(douglas) and was pursued by the enviroment agency and then given the £50 fine


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:45 am 
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Dundee wav, does it say in the conditions that the plates have to be placed on the outside of the vehicle, or just displayed, we have not received any info on this or been told what to do, some of us have just bought circular no smoking stickers and stuck them on the windows above the door handles, but its not enforced, and as the environment officer did not catch him without the plates the driver should challenge the fine.
Unless you have received written conformation from the council, that the rules have changed tell the environment officer, and the grass of an inspector to go forth and multiply


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:50 am 
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Lone ranger, what ever that confusing gobbledegoop was, I think your only jealous that Celtic won the league again :oops: :oops: :shock: :D and all the supporters had a dam good drink on the way home on the buses and trains and other means of transport :D :D :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:39 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Of course in Scotland we also have the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995 (c. 39) so we have to Police the Alcohol as well, I have had this a few times lately, you get flagged down by a group, you stop and pick them up, get on your way and next thing one of them, or all of them have either a bottle or in some cases a glass, but have concealed it in some way or other.

Alcohol on vehicles.

19.—(1) Where a public service vehicle or railway passenger vehicle is being operated for the principal purpose of conveying passengers for the whole or part of a journey to or from a designated sporting event, then—
(a) any person in possession of alcohol on the vehicle shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a period not exceeding 60 days or a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale or both;
(b) if alcohol is being carried on the vehicle and the vehicle is on hire to a person, he shall, subject to subsection (7) below, be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale; and
(c) any person who is drunk on the vehicle shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 2 on the standard scale.
(2) Notwithstanding section 92 of the [1976 c. 66.] Licensing (Scotland) Act 1976 (restriction on carriage of alcoholic liquor in crates on contract carriages), but subject to subsection (7) below, if the operator of a public service vehicle which is being operated as mentioned in subsection (1) above, either by himself or by his employee or agent permits alcohol to be carried on the vehicle, the operator and, as the case may be, the employee or agent shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

(3) This subsection applies to a motor vehicle which is not a public service vehicle but which is adapted to carry more than 8 passengers and is being operated for the principle purpose of conveying two or more passengers for the whole or part of a journey to or from a designated sporting event.

(4) Any person in possession of alcohol on a vehicle to which subsection (3) above applies shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a period not exceeding 60 days or a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale or both.

(5) Any person who is drunk on a vehicle to which subsection (3) above applies shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 2 on the standard scale.

(6) Any person who permits alcohol to be carried on a vehicle to which subsection (3) above applies and—
(a) is the driver of the vehicle; or
(b) where he is not its driver, is the keeper of the vehicle, the employee or agent of the keeper, a person to whom it is made available (by hire, loan or otherwise) by the keeper or the keeper's employee or agent, or the employee or agent of a person to whom it is so made available,
shall, subject to subsection (7) below, be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

(7) Where a person is charged with an offence under subsection (1)(b), (2) or (6) above, it shall be a defence for him to prove that the alcohol was carried on the vehicle without his consent or connivance and that he did all he reasonably could to prevent such carriage.


Interpretation of Part II.

23. In this Part of this Act, unless the context otherwise requires—
"advertised" means announced in any written or printed document or in any broadcast announcement;
"alcohol" means alcoholic liquor as defined in section 139 of the Licensing (Scotland) Act 1976;
"designated" means designated by the Secretary of State by order under section 18 of this Act, and "designated sporting event" includes a sporting event designated under section 9(3)(a) of the [1985 c. 57.] Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol) Etc. Act 1985;
"keeper", in relation to a vehicle, means the person having the duty to take out a licence for it under section 1(1) of the [1994 c. 22.] Vehicles Excise and Registration Act 1994;
"period of a designated sporting event" means the period commencing two hours before the start and ending one hour after the end of a designated sporting event, except that where the event is advertised as to start at a particular time but is delayed or postponed in includes, and where for any reason an event does not take place it means, the period commencing two hours before and ending one hour after, that particular time;
"public service vehicle" has the same meaning as in the [1981 c. 14.] Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 and "operator" in relation to such a vehicle means—
(a) the driver if he owns the vehicle; and
(b) in any other case the person for whom the driver works (whether under a contract of employment or any other description of contract personally to do work);
"railway passenger vehicle" has the same meaning as in the Licensing (Scotland) Act 1976;
"relevant area" means any part of a sports ground—
(a) to which spectators attending a designated sporting event are granted access on payment; or
(b) from which a designated sporting event may be viewed directly;
"sporting event" means any physical competitive activity at a sports ground, and includes any such activity which has been advertised as to, but does not, take place; and
"sports ground" means any place whatsoever which is designed, or is capable of being adapted, for the holding of sporting events in respect of which spectators are accommodated.


Not really sure what it all means and I cant be bothered to find out because it will have nothing to do with the real life scenarios that we face out on the streets of the various town centres up and down the country, the smoking ban is just the same, just another flashpoint where none previously existed, another area of conflict foisted upon us by the politicians and the WHO,of course they will be safely tucked up in their beds while we are left to enforce their rules.

You dont have any choice in this because if you dont enforce it you get the fine for someone else breaking the law, how do you physically stop someone from smoking,why should you risk your life or wellbeing or lose your licence because of this.

Thats not to say smokings a good thing but I cannot see why an innocent person should be liable for someone elses behaviour.

Someone else breaks the law and an innocent person is liable for allowing this to happen, surely a strange form of enforcement is it not, what happened to the "you do the crime, you do the time" adage, everything is all back to front in this country now, there is no compromise now, no freedom of choice and no justice, it's just another means to punish the innocent rather than the person responsible.

So just to sum up: Smoking is no good but neither is anything else these days, it's an expensive way to kill yourself, but you will die at some point, we all do, it has nothing to do with the smell of it.


I may be wrong but this seems to be for public service vehicles that carry over 8 passengers.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:22 pm 
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grandad wrote:
I may be wrong but this seems to be for public service vehicles that carry over 8 passengers.


Without looking into the various acts mentioned in the "Rangers" post, I'm inclined to agree that it relates to PSV legislation and not taxi or private hire legislation but thats only my first observation.

Regards

JD

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:57 pm 
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Rangers post :?: Maybe next year JD :wink: :wink: :P :^o :-s :idea:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:45 pm 
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See if you can grasp this "confusing gobbledegoop" Skippy41, it really isn't rocket science you know!!!

The smoking ban and the effects it has on those who are licenced to own or drive a vehicle in Scotland means that you are punished as well as the person who is smoking, this is currently £50 for the person doing the smoking and up to £200 for the operator who allows the other person to smoke, so the offender gets fined £50 for smoking and you get £200 for allowing it, dont you think it should be the other way around, you are culpable for someone elses actions to a greater degree than they are for their own actions, the peice about the Alcohol was just another example of how the person who is doing the driving or owns the vehicle becomes culpable for someone elses behaviour, you are supposed to have some degree of control over groups of other adults behaviour, now this is okay on paper:

Enforcement action

should be considered against individuals smoking in no-smoking premises
where the owner, occupier, manager or any other person in charge can
demonstrate that they have taken all reasonable precautions against these
individuals smoking on their premises.


But as is typical of these sort of things they will use covert surveillance at times as long as it is in line with the Regulation of Investigatory Powers (Scotland) Act 2000 and of course they did state that the personal safety of officers should not be compromised by enforcement action, so why should they expect a taxi driver to risk their personal safety because of it?remember if you do not or cannot prove that you took steps to stop someone from smoking you can be fined four times the amount they get fined, I dont think the police want anything to do with the enforcement of it either, I dont think someone who is smoking a legally available product ranks highly on their list of priorities.

This is another reason why people, who lets be honest about it, have often led blame free lives, their not criminals, their not thugs, they smoke thats all, will have to spend time looking over their shoulders to make sure they dont end up getting fined for partaking in the enjoyment of a legally available product, you never know when your business or employees will be under covert surveillance.All this for an embassy regal :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:55 pm 
told you lot b4...organize a national light up...every town, city, village say at 8pm on a sat nite no matter where u are..pub, club,bingo, work...wotever....everyone light up !!! wot cud they do ??? people power and majority always win...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:06 pm 
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Anyway enjoy your fresh air, get used to it because you might find your wallets are full of it in the near future, they say smoke free future and all the rest of it but they really dont want people to stop you know, they want the cash it generates, they are hypocrites, if it was that bad it would be banned altogether along with everything else.

Prohibition/social engineering never works you know, your fooling yourselves if you think it can, it causes resentment and stigmatises millions of people and there are quite a few other unpleasant problems and side affects, fighting it is a waste of time it's a done deal, smokers are the new social outcasts.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:32 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Of course in Scotland we also have the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995 (c. 39) so we have to Police the Alcohol as well, I have had this a few times lately, you get flagged down by a group, you stop and pick them up, get on your way and next thing one of them, or all of them have either a bottle or in some cases a glass, but have concealed it in some way or other.



I think the regulations you refer to have been in force in one form or another for a few decades now, and they were primarily aimed at stopping fitba fans getting tanked up on supporters buses (or fitba train specials - do they still exist?) on the way to matches, and I seem to recall that the ban was regarded as pretty successful, but to be honest I haven't really heard the matter being discussed for a while now.

I don't think they have any relevance to taxis, but if they have then no one has ever told me!

I suspect you're a bit too young to remember all that Lone Ranger. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:39 am 
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Skippy71 wrote:
Where does it state when you take on a Plate that you have to comply with a No Smoking (PAX or driver) situation? Can't find it in my paperwork either so will continue to fight it.



As I said it's not directly within the licencing department's remit. Your licencing conditions don't say that you can't break the speed limit, because that's road traffic law and enforced by the police.

I think most Scottish LAs have enforcement officers in their environmental health departments who are responsible for policing the ban.

When the law was due to come into force last year LAs sent letters to taxi and PH ops telling them about the law and how to comply with it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:09 am 
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Tis all Pi$h really, might be time to exit stage left. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:53 am 
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tx_op wrote:
told you lot b4...organize a national light up...every town, city, village say at 8pm on a sat nite no matter where u are..pub, club,bingo, work...wotever....everyone light up !!! wot cud they do ??? people power and majority always win...


the majority are non smokers. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:24 pm 
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Location: edinburgh
Up here in edinburgh we were sent no guidelines as taxi operaters, the stickers were not available for weeks even then you had to download them.All the other premises pubs,shops,etc were sent a pack on how the new legislation would work and how to deal with it,We however had to find out for ourselves.Oh and the police are not interested unless it gets voilent.They freely just laugh at people who are smoking in their taxis vans etc.
And as for your wallets being full of fresh air YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT!!!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:55 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
Tis all Pi$h really, might be time to exit stage left. :roll:


Don't let me stop yees! I'll even dig the pit for you to fall into meself like :mrgreen: Could you juss wait a few minutes as I want to roll a spliff to smoke on the way 'cos thats legal like for as long as it contains no baccie.


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