Taxi Driver Online

Why do you think they wouldn't have started it Andy, and what would they have done instead??

So you mean you don't think it will go to the CC and the OFT will decide the issues themsleves??

My money's still on a CC reference, and I think it will be a big inquiry.

One point is that the market inquiries that the CC do can only be initiated by the OFT, the CC can't investigate markets without the OFT referrring them.

As I said, I think there are too many competition issues and similar questions for the OFT not to refer it. Others as well as those mentioned above could include:

- unlicensed and other vehicles eg limos, fire engines(!), pedicabs, community cars etc.
- cross border issues
- use of terminology for marketing and suchlike - eg one of the reasons for including PH was because the public were confused, and one main reason is the confusing terminology
- fare discounting
- unregulated out-of-area fares
- the self-employed status of jockies
- corporate licenses in Scotland

etc etc etc

As for adding PH, I think that should have been expected, since both sectors are competing in the same market, and from their London perspective it might not have been so obvious initially.

Indeed, I think it's probably because it's more involved than they thought it would be that will lead them to refer to the CC.

If it was a more mainstream market (like private dental services, for example) then they would do the work themselves.

As for the delay, who knows the reasons for it, it may be logistical or something like that, but even if they refer it to the CC the OFT will want to get their bit just right.

As I think I said, there seems to be a new procedural requirement under the Enterprise Act to consult interested parties, so this could be relevant.

I would like to know how they decide who the interested parties are, and how they consult them!!!

Dusty

Yup. Totally agree. There MUST be qualitative controls, and they should require an equal standard of safety, and cover all vehicles on the road for hire and reward - thus, a single tier system.

_________________
There is Significant Unmet Demand for my Opinion.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Gotta say I agree with Wharfie 100% here.

_________________
There is Significant Unmet Demand for my Opinion.

what isnt appreciated is its not like investitgating the grocery market, there are thousands upon thousands of tiny buisnesses, over 30,000 in london alone

if there is a big enquiry then nothing will happen at all, they will have buggered it.

it went tits up when they needlessly added private hire quite unneccesarily, unneccesary because there was no competition issues at all.in private hire

people on here insist they are the same market, how they can say that is probably they cannot sectionises the differences, quite worrying realy

whilst this goes no there is disinvestment, indeed still the dionasaurs clinging on to premiums and running thier buisness accordingly.

every single taxi report is fudged, this one will be the same.

Wharfie

Perhaps I've just got a lower opinion of officialdom than most.

Will it go to the CC, well I haven't a clue. When you look at past reports, it would seem a CC is on the cards, but they could just get rid of the quotas, which will please many, but still leave many many issues un-resolved.

If they are serious about sorting the whole blinking lot, then the CC is the way forward. If they aren't up for a fight, then clause 1.1.... via a RRO is on the cards.

I couldn't agree more.

But have they got the balls?

Taxis and PH ARE the same market in the sense that buses and trains are too. Individual market segments maybe, but still the same general market. Things being in the same market, are usually defined as businesses which compete for the same general customer base. General Jo Public defines what the market is, not us. Do they flag a taxi, pull one off a rank, or phone for a taxi or PH car. It matters not a jot to most of them whether a taxi or PH car pulls up. If a bus (or even a Fire Engine) pulled up to offer them the same journey characteristics, they'd take it.

The break point with PH and Taxi comes at the stage of qualitative breaks or pot luck of location only. Ie. Qualitative, in terms of do you want a Black Cab or a Mercedes E-class for your wedding, and they take a taxi if one is there in front of them saving them having to phone for one. I think 99% of the public in our area couldnt tell you even if there were any PH cars in the district. They would call them ALL Taxis. Jeez, I cannot even say if there ARE any PH cars in our manor (othet than three of the minibuses on our fleet), and I drive around the place all day.

Of course we are all in the same market place. We are competing for the same customers.

"Perhaps I've just got a lower opinion of officialdom than most".

??????

Sussex Man, I would challenge you on that remark!!!

_________________
There is Significant Unmet Demand for my Opinion.

i just hope that some good comes out of this reprot.
lets all go for good cars driven by good drivers.
if this comes out of it then it might be worth the wait.

I thought there were thousand upon thousands of tiny businesses in the grocery market as well Wharfy

I see what you mean though, but they do investigate markets with many small players, for example last year they reported on veterinary medicines and how the conduct of veterinary practices was stifling competition. A few years ago I think they dealt with self-employed hospital consultants and private medicine.

There are different issues involved obviously, but at the end of the day the OFT's remit is to make markets work well, both for businesses and consumers, and the size is irrelevant.

Dusty

The fundamental point is perhaps that in many locations if there wasn't different standards applied to PH and taxis, or numerical restrictions on the latter, then there simply wouldn't be a PH sector.

Anway, if they weren't competing in the same market then you wouldn't even be mentioning private hire - the preoccupation of much of the taxi trade with PH demonstrates that they are in competition.

There are many regulatory and competition issues involved - for example, many in the taxi trade accuse PH of ripping off customers - too true, that's because they're doing similar/identical work but PH fares aren't regulated, or if they are, they are charging taxi fares.

As for regulatory issues, many have identical conditions of fitness for drivers and cars as taxis, so if the OFT look at these for taxis, then why not PH??

Dusty

Yes, well so have I, that's why my only contact with my LA is to renew my badge and plate and get the motor tested, and I've had little contact with central government.

However, I'm hoping that the OFT will be different, they should be able to understand the issues in a way that government can't, and they will be able to take a detached view, unlike councillors who may well be worried about their own plate value, or adverse headlines in Cab Trade News.

Having taken a bit of time to gain an overview of how the OFT and/or CC investigate markets, I'm sure they'll do justice to the issues in a thorough and detached manner.

Of course I could be totally wrong, but I'm pinning my hopes on them, in a way that I would never do with LAs or central government.

My only worry is that they could give to much weight to the consumer side, and the trade will suffer as a consequence.

Dusty

Dusty
our colleagues in Brighton and Halifax claim the market works well and efficiently, I dont think it does.

the office of fair trading isnt independent, its a government body and follows laws and attitudes of the government.

remember that, just as taxiandprivatehireforums is part of the mouthpice of individuals of Brighton, Wigan, Gatehead, and Mansfield, ( and wo be tierd you giving an opposite view, that is barrable) so the oft is the mothpiece of the government.

Wharfie

You could be correct Wharfy, but methinks you're being a tad cynical, although I know what you mean.

Of course, the revamped OFT and CC, and the accompanying Enterprise Act, were intended to take governments out of these decisions. For example, the Trade and Industry secretary could have overturned the CC's Safeway recommendations, but with future investigations under the Enterprise Act the Govt will have no formal say in such matters.

Of course, that won't convince you Wharfy, but the first big test of the process was the pharmacies recommendation - the OFT recommended lifting restrictions, but this was knocked back by both the Westminster Government and the Scottish Executive.

That might not augur well for taxi de-limitation, but it does augur well for OFT independence.

Moreover, I think that the Government will take a different approach to numerical restritcions on taxis as compared to pharmacies.

Dusty

was the chemist report knocked back? didnt know that, must be the pwer of the drug dealers in Nottingham!

some one came into the office last night and asked if we would go and get some condoms, I asked have you tried boots? he said yes i wanna f*** her to death not kick her to death!

seriously though there are tough heart strings pulled on our trade you know" well I paid £30,000 for this taxi and you will take it off me"

in our neck they opened all the areas where premiums were undre 10 grand but left Halifax where premiums are about £50,000 because they did not want bankrupcies!

its powerfull even Thatcher didnt go the whole hog and buckled and parliament will buckle again!

Wharfie