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Why Pre-book Private Hires
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Author:  TeezJ [ Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Why Pre-book Private Hires
Guys.

Hi - my first post here, apologies if this has been addressed earlier. I have been looking and trying to figure out this pre-booking/PH issue. I have been lurking on the site for quite some time, and would like to clarify some stuff:

1. Hackney cabs are the iconic black taxis.
2. Private hires (PH) are normal cars that have been converted or is used as a taxi.
3. Black cabs can be hailed and ridden without having to pre-book.
4. PH need to be pre-booked.

I hope I am clear so far.

The questions are:

1. Do PH's need to be pre-booked due to security reasons only? Or is there something else? (Administrative/ Accounting / Hackneys did not want their businesses affected).

2. Is the pre-booking methodology really effective? It seems rather inconvenient.

Looking at the reports of assaults etc. it doesn't seem the security reason has been completely taken care of.

Would love to hear your thoughts.
Author:  Sussex [ Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Pre-book Private Hires
TeezJ wrote:
1. Do PH's need to be pre-booked due to security reasons only? Or is there something else? (Administrative/ Accounting / Hackneys did not want their businesses affected).

They need to be pre-booked because they aren't taxis, and the service they are licensed to undertake isn't immediate hire taxi business.

TeezJ wrote:
2. Is the pre-booking methodology really effective? It seems rather inconvenient.

What would you suggest?

TeezJ wrote:
Looking at the reports of assaults etc. it doesn't seem the security reason has been completely taken care of.

Well clearly, but if licensing authorities had a crystal ball most attacks wouldn't happen. Alas they don't.

Also you have to bear in mind that many attacks are done by unlicensed scum driving unlicensed vehicles.

Quite how you deal with that I know not.
Author:  TeezJ [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi again.

Thanks for the quick reply.

1. I understand that they are not taxis. However, it is difficult for somebody, presumably with a meter on-board to not make his service available. So the question would be, what stops them from getting into the 'immediate hire business'?

2. So we agree that pre-booking is inconvenient - and there could be a better way? I am trying to work on the solution :) Need some help/info from people in the business.

3. Are we saying that unlicensed 'Average Joe' picks up trade and ends up assaulting? Or is 'Average Joe' a minor problem?

Thanks for the help again.
Author:  Sussex [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:37 am ]
Post subject: 
TeezJ wrote:
1. I understand that they are not taxis. However, it is difficult for somebody, presumably with a meter on-board to not make his service available. So the question would be, what stops them from getting into the 'immediate hire business'?

Nothing, other than getting a taxi driver's license from the PCO.

TeezJ wrote:
2. So we agree that pre-booking is inconvenient - and there could be a better way? I am trying to work on the solution :) Need some help/info from people in the business.

It's not inconvenient, it's the law.

TeezJ wrote:
3. Are we saying that unlicensed 'Average Joe' picks up trade and ends up assaulting? Or is 'Average Joe' a minor problem?

Yes, and no.
Author:  thelodger [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Hackney drivers are professionals who has invested and completed a local knowledge test that is an asset to the local community.

With a few exceptions, PH are a group of drivers who either are wannabe hacks or pretend hackney drivers.......
Author:  Brummie Cabbie [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Private Hire and Hackney Carriage are essentially regulated by different Acts of Parliament, although you wouldn't think it in most city centres on a weekend night.
Author:  toots [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:50 am ]
Post subject: 
thelodger wrote:
Hackney drivers are professionals who has invested and completed a local knowledge test that is an asset to the local community.

With a few exceptions, PH are a group of drivers who either are wannabe hacks or pretend hackney drivers.......


I hate this kind of comment. PH drivers are profesionals who also invest money and knowledge, they are also an asset to the local community. So get off your high horse and stop coming across as something special. The only taxi drivers that may be considered special are those that give their free time for worthy causes. There are exceptions in both sides of the trade and yes I agree there are some PH drivers that don't play by the rules but there are some HC drivers that don't play by them either.
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Hackney drivers are professionals who has invested and completed a local knowledge test that is an asset to the local community.


so PH drivers are rogues, scoundrels and rapists of no use to anyone at all, and you wouldnt let them look after your cat?

here all drivers ar dual badged, HC+PH, and take exactly the same test, so where does that leave me?..........
Author:  grandad [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:09 am ]
Post subject: 
wannabeeahack wrote:
Quote:
Hackney drivers are professionals who has invested and completed a local knowledge test that is an asset to the local community.


so PH drivers are rogues, scoundrels and rapists of no use to anyone at all, and you wouldnt let them look after your cat?

here all drivers ar dual badged, HC+PH, and take exactly the same test, so where does that leave me?..........


That would depend on which type of vehicle you choose to drive at any given time.
I am also duel badged and some days I drive one of our hackneys and on other days I drive a PH. It depends on the particular job.
Author:  Brummie Cabbie [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
toots wrote:
thelodger wrote:
Hackney drivers are professionals who has invested and completed a local knowledge test that is an asset to the local community.

With a few exceptions, PH are a group of drivers who either are wannabe hacks or pretend hackney drivers.......

I hate this kind of comment. PH drivers are profesionals who also invest money and knowledge, they are also an asset to the local community. So get off your high horse and stop coming across as something special. The only taxi drivers that may be considered special are those that give their free time for worthy causes. There are exceptions in both sides of the trade and yes I agree there are some PH drivers that don't play by the rules but there are some HC drivers that don't play by them either.

What you have to realise is that the PH and HC trades are regulated under the same acts throughout the country, but that regulation is vastly different from LA to LA. In the time I've been on TDO that has become very apparent.

Now you might hate that type of comment, but Mr thelodger is probably licensed and works in an LA where PH enforcement is p*ss poor and so PH take the p*ss. And who wouldn't blame them. 'When the cat's away the mice will play . . .'

I know Brum is such an LA and to enforce the law properly we would probably need about 200 enforcement officer, half of which would need to work nights.

On the other hand you are probably licensed in an LA that upholds and enforces the legislation very tightly and so PH mousing work into oblivion isn't an issue, or at least it's very minor.

You wrote, 'yes I agree there are some PH drivers that don't play by the rules'. Come to Brum and you would yourself change 'some' to 'most' in that statement.

'but there are some HC drivers that don't play by them either'. Such as?
Author:  Smoked Glass [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Pre-book Private Hires
TeezJ wrote:
Guys.

Hi - my first post here, apologies if this has been addressed earlier. I have been looking and trying to figure out this pre-booking/PH issue. I have been lurking on the site for quite some time, and would like to clarify some stuff:

1. Hackney cabs are the iconic black taxis.
2. Private hires (PH) are normal cars that have been converted or is used as a taxi.
3. Black cabs can be hailed and ridden without having to pre-book.
4. PH need to be pre-booked.

I hope I am clear so far.

The questions are:

1. Do PH's need to be pre-booked due to security reasons only? Or is there something else? (Administrative/ Accounting / Hackneys did not want their businesses affected).

2. Is the pre-booking methodology really effective? It seems rather inconvenient.

Looking at the reports of assaults etc. it doesn't seem the security reason has been completely taken care of.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

1. No not always, they can be saloon vehicles in some counties. They will ALWAYS have the word TAXI on them
2. No PH are private hire vehicles they must be pre-booked and cannot be hailed or ranked. [general public often miss-use the word taxi when referring to this type of vehicle].PH can be minibuses or saloon vehicles.
3. Yes
4. Yes
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
3. Black cabs can be hailed and ridden without having to pre-book.


only within thier own LA, once outside they revert to PH status...
Author:  Sussex [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
TeezJ wrote:
2. So we agree that pre-booking is inconvenient - and there could be a better way? I am trying to work on the solution :) Need some help/info from people in the business.

I'm still intrigued about your master plan.

When you say better way, well at present most work goes via a radio/voice, or a radio/data, or via PDA/mobile.

I'm not sure how you can improve on voice, or a glorified text message.
Author:  cabbyman [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
You need to start understanding the following legislation:

Town (Police Clauses) Act 1847
Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976

Those are the two main statutes that govern the trade.
Author:  WirralPH [ Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
toots wrote:
thelodger wrote:
Hackney drivers are professionals who has invested and completed a local knowledge test that is an asset to the local community.

With a few exceptions, PH are a group of drivers who either are wannabe hacks or pretend hackney drivers.......


I hate this kind of comment. PH drivers are profesionals who also invest money and knowledge, they are also an asset to the local community. So get off your high horse and stop coming across as something special. The only taxi drivers that may be considered special are those that give their free time for worthy causes. There are exceptions in both sides of the trade and yes I agree there are some PH drivers that don't play by the rules but there are some HC drivers that don't play by them either.


I, too, get very annoyed at these views. There are professionals and non-professionals working in both sides of the trade. Fact.
I am - as my username suggests - a private hire driver, but I am not 'anti-hack'. It's high time (though it won't happen any time soon in reality) that the PH vs HC saga ended and people worked to bring the trade together rather than further divide it. For example - I'd say that in the area where I work, we need a new body to represent the trade as a whole. My view is that we can be more effective together in bringing about change and working to improve our trade rather than having seperate organisations for HC and PH (or having none at all).

We have to realise ourselves that we shouldn't be working against one another, then we can stand together (yes, there will always be some differences - I realise that) and - with a united front - let the travelling public see that both sides of the trade are professional.

I know an experienced driver who has gone from PH to HC and back again, each time hoping to make more money etc. etc. So, according to thelodger, is this man a professional when he's driving a black cab and then when he returns to driving a PHV does he suddenly become an unprofessional, undesirable driver???

I, myself, have only been in the job a matter of months. Already, I've gone out and bought a new car for the job. I work hard, don't overcharge, offer assistance, I'm polite and friendly. Surely this adds up to me being a professional, even though I drive a Vectra and not a 'black cab'?

My dad has been a PH driver for 25 years. He's never had a complaint made against him, always kept a clean license - and a clean car! Surely he's a professional?

It's certainly not fair to say that HC drivers have invested in the trade and we - as PH - haven't. Outside my house tonight there are three new PH cars, all top-of-the-range, all clean. And, like it or not, they are all driven by professionals - who have passed local authority knowledge tests. There's a guy not too far from where I live drives a 15 year old Fairway. I'm not saying he's not a good driver (he probably is), but can you really say he's invested in the trade? I probably pay more monthly for my car than he would have paid to buy his outright.

All this said though, I do agree with Brummie Cabbie's point of view - where he says that standards of PH / Taxi vary greatly across the country with varying levels of enforcement. We - I would say - are in one of the 'tougher' areas for licensing. As a driver though, I would welcome more stringent checks on vehicles etc. Some of the cars are appalling! This would be for the good of everyone.

One last thing I will say is that perhaps some PH drivers are 'wannabe hack drivers', I don't know. All I do know is that there are many - myself, my brother, my dad included - that have no desire to be a HC driver. We are quite happy doing the job we do, offering the service that we offer and making a decent living. Why would we want to become HC drivers?
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