Without a shadow of a doubt, to sign is good, in fact very good.
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| TO SIGN OR NOT TO SIGN LONDON’S MINI CABS http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2868 |
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| Author: | Guest [ Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | TO SIGN OR NOT TO SIGN LONDON’S MINI CABS |
TO SIGN OR NOT TO SIGN LONDON’S MINI CABS This week, Transport for London's Public Carriage Office (PCO) has issued a formal public consultation to decide whether private hire vehicles in the capital should be permitted to have external Taxi signage. The PCO say the private hire industry and the taxi trade will be consulted during the next two months. Currently no external signage is allowed on private hire vehicles, only the vehicle licence disc displayed on the front and back windows of the vehicle, which identifies that the vehicle is licensed. Roy Ellis, Head of the PCO, said: "External signage is an important issue that needs to be discussed. A previous consultation proved inconclusive and we urge all those involved in the consultation process to contribute.” "Whilst many in the private hire trade feel that additional signage would help to make vehicles more easily identifiable for passengers who have to book in advance, other people claim that this could make the vehicles more susceptible to being hailed on the street.” Only the distinctive licensed London Taxis taxis can be hailed on the street, private hire vehicles have to be pre booked. Ellis added, "Ultimately we want the public to be safe when using taxi and private hire vehicles, so we need be very thorough during this consultation process that ends on 31 January 2006." The PCO also announced that the consultation will also look at the issue of extending the private hire vehicle licensing inspections to include a mechanical inspection of the vehicle. The London Taxi Board, (LTB) which represents taxi circuit operators, drivers and the London Taxi manufacturers, believes there should be no external identifier taxi plates on licensed public hire vehicles. They say the internal identifier, if properly positioned in easy sight of the passengers, is adequate. Chris Kelsey, a member of the London Taxi Board said, “We believe that by putting external taxi signs on private hire cars the public will be confused and start trying to hail these vehicles on London’s streets, which is illegal. As all licensed public hire vehicles cannot ply for hire on the streets, but have to be booked and operate from an office, there is no need to potentially confuse passengers on what is a taxi you can hail and what is not.” “This would be particularly confusing for the millions of visitors we get to London. How are they to know what the difference is between a licensed black taxi and a licensed private hire vehicle? It would also increase the potential for illegal non licensed mini cabs to cruise the streets.” “In Birmingham roof top signs for private hire vehicles have been removed because the licensing authority found the external signs encouraged drivers to ply for hire” said Kelsey. He added, “As the Mayor of London has promoted the ‘Know what you are getting into’ taxi campaign and has cracked down on illegal taxi touts, external taxi identification plates for private hire vehicles would encourage illegal activity and make enforcement more difficult.” |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Without a shadow of a doubt, to sign is good, in fact very good.
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| Author: | Sussex [ Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: TO SIGN OR NOT TO SIGN LONDON’S MINI CABS |
tm wrote: Ellis added, "Ultimately we want the public to be safe when using taxi and private hire vehicles, so we need be very thorough during this consultation process that ends on 31 January 2006."
A consultation period that short, especially with Xmas in the middle, tells me that the decision has already been made. 
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| Author: | Tom Thumb [ Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:43 pm ] |
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Addison Lee's old window signs helped create a brand that was recgonized and accepted. I see now difference to a black cab being able to have 'Dail a cab' or 'Radio Taxis' on the side and Addy Lee or Blueback having their company name in the back window. As long as PH vehicles don't include the inappropriate wording like taxi or cab. I would hope that the PH's can have some signage but that it is kept to a reasonably discreet minimum, 12x18 inches for example on the back or smaller still on the side. |
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| Author: | Ollie [ Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: TO SIGN OR NOT TO SIGN LONDON’S MINI CABS |
tm wrote: “In Birmingham roof top signs for private hire vehicles have been removed because the licensing authority found the external signs encouraged drivers to ply for hire” said Kelsey.
Who mentioned roof rights? As far as I'm concerned they can stick them. All I want, and all we will get is proper door signage. Can't wait. 
Ollie |
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| Author: | GBC [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: TO SIGN OR NOT TO SIGN LONDON’S MINI CABS |
Ollie wrote: tm wrote: “In Birmingham roof top signs for private hire vehicles have been removed because the licensing authority found the external signs encouraged drivers to ply for hire” said Kelsey. Who mentioned roof rights? As far as I'm concerned they can stick them. All I want, and all we will get is proper door signage. Can't wait. Ollie Why would you want door signs on your, cough, ahem, Luxury Mercedes you tell us you posess Ollie? 
Can't see your 'corporate clients' liking that. I should'nt worry, we convinced them last time, i'm sure we will convince them again.
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| Author: | GBC [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:46 am ] |
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Tom Thumb wrote: Addison Lee's old window signs helped create a brand that was recgonized and accepted.
I see now difference to a black cab being able to have 'Dail a cab' or 'Radio Taxis' on the side and Addy Lee or Blueback having their company name in the back window. As long as PH vehicles don't include the inappropriate wording like taxi or cab. I would hope that the PH's can have some signage but that it is kept to a reasonably discreet minimum, 12x18 inches for example on the back or smaller still on the side. But Mr Thumb, perhaps you don't have the blatant touting in your area carried out by licensed Minicabs, that we suffer with in London. When I say thousands on any given Friday or Saturday, I really do mean Thousands. Its always convieniently blamed on touts in unlicensed private cars, my eyes (20 / 20) tell me a different story. |
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| Author: | GBC [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: TO SIGN OR NOT TO SIGN LONDON’S MINI CABS |
Ollie wrote: All I want, and all we will get is proper door signage.
Can't wait. Ollie You might have to. A contact of mine, and a good one at that, unlike your made up ones, is currently writing a report on this subject to argue against the above. The good news for you Ollie, he's a skipper on the tout squad.
Never mind. |
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| Author: | GBC [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: TO SIGN OR NOT TO SIGN LONDON’S MINI CABS |
tm wrote: “As the Mayor of London has promoted the ‘Know what you are getting into’ taxi campaign and has cracked down on illegal taxi touts, external taxi identification plates for private hire vehicles would encourage illegal activity and make enforcement more difficult.”
Hear Hear. |
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| Author: | GBC [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: TO SIGN OR NOT TO SIGN LONDON’S MINI CABS |
Sussex wrote: tm wrote: Ellis added, "Ultimately we want the public to be safe when using taxi and private hire vehicles, so we need be very thorough during this consultation process that ends on 31 January 2006." A consultation period that short, especially with Xmas in the middle, tells me that the decision has already been made. Someones guessing again. |
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| Author: | GBC [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: TO SIGN OR NOT TO SIGN LONDON’S MINI CABS |
tm wrote: “In Birmingham roof top signs for private hire vehicles have been removed because the licensing authority found the external signs encouraged drivers to ply for hire” said Kelsey.
Ours don't need encouragement, they do it regardless. 40 years of being run by criminals, and employing criminals, is a hard culture to shake off. |
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| Author: | GBC [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: TO SIGN OR NOT TO SIGN LONDON’S MINI CABS |
tm wrote: The London Taxi Board, (LTB) which represents taxi circuit operators, drivers and the London Taxi manufacturers,
Err, drivers? I don't think so. 
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| Author: | GBC [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: TO SIGN OR NOT TO SIGN LONDON’S MINI CABS |
tm wrote: “This would be particularly confusing for the millions of visitors we get to London. How are they to know what the difference is between a licensed black taxi and a licensed private hire vehicle?
But you tell us your vehicles are a world famous icon Mr Kelsey? 
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| Author: | JD [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:28 am ] |
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R v BOURNEMOUTH BOROUGH COUNCIL, EX PARTE THOMPSON & ANOR (1985) QBD (Mann J) LOCAL GOVERNMENT - ADMINISTRATIVE LAW - LICENSING LICENSING TAXIS AND TAXI DRIVERS - VEHICLE DESIGN Cab design differs according to locality Application for judicial review of decisions that an Austin Hire Car FL2 was not of such a design or appearance as to lead any person to believe that it was a hackney carriage & that licences should be granted under s.48(1) Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 to use such vehicles as private hire vehicles. HELD: A vehicle design which in London might lead persons to believe it to be a hackney carriage would not necessarily do so in Inverness. Such belief depended on a number of local factors-an important one being the composition of the local hackney carriage fleet.Application dismissed. |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: TO SIGN OR NOT TO SIGN LONDON’S MINI CABS |
greenbadgecabby wrote: Why would you want door signs on your, cough, ahem, Luxury Mercedes you tell us you posess Ollie?
I suppose he could have magnetic ones. So when Lonodn PH do their own work they can have signage on, but when they do the executive black cab work they can take them off. 
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