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| When is a civil case not a civil case? http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5349 |
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| Author: | cabby john [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | When is a civil case not a civil case? |
If someone does a runner from your car, the police will generally say it is a civil matter and that you should pursue it through the court at your own expense. So the bottom line is that they (the runner) has stolen/defrauded you and the law are prepared to do nothing. In another case of which some of you will be familiar with - if you or I refuse as Hackneys to take a fare - we can and will be prosecuted. Surely that is also a civil matter - between the driver and the potential customer. So when is a civil matter not a civil matter. |
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| Author: | Barnsley [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:21 pm ] |
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If someone does a runner from your car they are breaking the law if the police tell you any different they are just not wanting the hassle. |
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| Author: | GMB Branch secretary [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:47 pm ] |
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I think its called Taking a Pecuinary Advantage and is a CRIMINAL offence. Attitude of FILFYS par for the course nice EH. DECISIONS ARE TAKEN BY THOSE TURN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| Author: | cabby john [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:57 pm ] |
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Barnsley wrote: If someone does a runner from your car they are breaking the law if the police tell you any different they are just not wanting the hassle.
Very true, but if that is the attitude and it is the same with shoplifting that they give out fixed penalty fines,how do we stop this. If it were a case of not wanting the hassle, ( and I am sure you are right)would'nt the courts direct the police to take action. If we don't stop this attitude, more of our colleages are going to get a hiding, on the basis of; - "give them an inch and they will take a mile" and that is why things are getting worse. |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is a civil case not a civil case? |
cabby john wrote: If someone does a runner from your car, the police will generally say it is a civil matter and that you should pursue it through the court at your own expense.
The police would be generally wrong. http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3893 |
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| Author: | cabby john [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is a civil case not a civil case? |
Deleted. |
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| Author: | cabby john [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When is a civil case not a civil case? |
Sussex wrote: cabby john wrote: If someone does a runner from your car, the police will generally say it is a civil matter and that you should pursue it through the court at your own expense. The police would be generally wrong. http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3893 Forgive my ignorance but it mentions N.Ireland, do we come under the same law. Most other law situations seem to cover England & Wales. |
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| Author: | MR T [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:17 pm ] |
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http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtop ... 9406#59406 |
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| Author: | cabby john [ Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:10 am ] |
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Thanks to all for information supplied, and having it established that it is a criminal offence, but two questions remain. (1) How do you make the police prosecute, if they dont want to ? (2) Going back to my query, why is one offence considered a civil matter and the other one is not, both involve customer dispute? And as ever the L.O only choose to get involved with the minor of the two on behalf of the public. |
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| Author: | GMB Branch secretary [ Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:49 pm ] |
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John if you were a member wed make them prosecute or do it for you, and then hit the politicians and the media with it. Second point LO are answerable to politicians, get YOUR politicians in power ROCKET SCIENCE??????????????????? DECISIONS ARE TAKEN BY THOSE THAT TURN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| Author: | captain cab [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:43 pm ] |
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Quote: Thanks to all for information supplied, and having it established that it is a criminal offence, but two questions remain.
(1) How do you make the police prosecute, if they dont want to ? (2) Going back to my query, why is one offence considered a civil matter and the other one is not, both involve customer dispute? And as ever the L.O only choose to get involved with the minor of the two on behalf of the public. John your query has been asked on here many times before. The offence is making off without payment or bilking. The passenger never intended to pay the fare. This is a criminal offence. The civil aspect (which is non criminal) is that the passenger may either dispute the fare and refuse to pay or the passenger may have forgotton their money. I dont see where the local authority come into this, they are not here as taxi trade debt collectors, all I would ask them to do is give their local trade decent advice. regards CC |
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| Author: | cabby john [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:14 pm ] |
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captain cab wrote: Quote: Thanks to all for information supplied, and having it established that it is a criminal offence, but two questions remain. (1) How do you make the police prosecute, if they dont want to ? (2) Going back to my query, why is one offence considered a civil matter and the other one is not, both involve customer dispute? And as ever the L.O only choose to get involved with the minor of the two on behalf of the public. John your query has been asked on here many times before. The offence is making off without payment or bilking. The passenger never intended to pay the fare. This is a criminal offence. The civil aspect (which is non criminal) is that the passenger may either dispute the fare and refuse to pay or the passenger may have forgotton their money. I dont see where the local authority come into this, they are not here as taxi trade debt collectors, all I would ask them to do is give their local trade decent advice. regards CC Hi C.C I have always known the difference,But! the police down here always argue (I believe wrongly) that it is a civil matter and as such refuse to take it to court. The point re the LAs is that they seem to have money to waste (under the guise of public protection) in prosecuting a driver for refusing to pick up. Whilst this is an offence, I would not by and large call it a crime. Where as a criminal offence has taken place (making off without paying) the waste of public money (re prosecution) is one way only, and as ever we are on the sharp end of the stick. As I see it if one is a civil offence then so is the other,(as it is both a one on one dispute) and as such the L.As should certainly water down the offence. |
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| Author: | captain cab [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:47 pm ] |
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cabby john wrote: captain cab wrote: Quote: Thanks to all for information supplied, and having it established that it is a criminal offence, but two questions remain. (1) How do you make the police prosecute, if they dont want to ? (2) Going back to my query, why is one offence considered a civil matter and the other one is not, both involve customer dispute? And as ever the L.O only choose to get involved with the minor of the two on behalf of the public. John your query has been asked on here many times before. The offence is making off without payment or bilking. The passenger never intended to pay the fare. This is a criminal offence. The civil aspect (which is non criminal) is that the passenger may either dispute the fare and refuse to pay or the passenger may have forgotton their money. I dont see where the local authority come into this, they are not here as taxi trade debt collectors, all I would ask them to do is give their local trade decent advice. regards CC Hi C.C I have always known the difference,But! the police down here always argue (I believe wrongly) that it is a civil matter and as such refuse to take it to court. The point re the LAs is that they seem to have money to waste (under the guise of public protection) in prosecuting a driver for refusing to pick up. Whilst this is an offence, I would not by and large call it a crime. Where as a criminal offence has taken place (making off without paying) the waste of public money (re prosecution) is one way only, and as ever we are on the sharp end of the stick. As I see it if one is a civil offence then so is the other,(as it is both a one on one dispute) and as such the L.As should certainly water down the offence. I see where your coming from John but if you got into a taxi and say forgot your wallet, would you expect the cab driver to expect to see you arrested? If the LA are taking you on for refusing a fare they need to be certain they are correct because invariably you have the right to appeal their decision. A bloody nose in magistrates very often does the trick. Unfortunately experience tells me in cardiff there are a lot of cherrypickers who are selective in the fares they accept, the approach of many LA's seems to be. Getting a few bad apples using a chainsaw on the tree. CC |
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| Author: | cabby john [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:19 pm ] |
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captain cab wrote: cabby john wrote: captain cab wrote: Quote: Thanks to all for information supplied, and having it established that it is a criminal offence, but two questions remain. (1) How do you make the police prosecute, if they dont want to ? (2) Going back to my query, why is one offence considered a civil matter and the other one is not, both involve customer dispute? And as ever the L.O only choose to get involved with the minor of the two on behalf of the public. John your query has been asked on here many times before. The offence is making off without payment or bilking. The passenger never intended to pay the fare. This is a criminal offence. The civil aspect (which is non criminal) is that the passenger may either dispute the fare and refuse to pay or the passenger may have forgotton their money. I dont see where the local authority come into this, they are not here as taxi trade debt collectors, all I would ask them to do is give their local trade decent advice. regards CC Hi C.C I have always known the difference,But! the police down here always argue (I believe wrongly) that it is a civil matter and as such refuse to take it to court. The point re the LAs is that they seem to have money to waste (under the guise of public protection) in prosecuting a driver for refusing to pick up. Whilst this is an offence, I would not by and large call it a crime. Where as a criminal offence has taken place (making off without paying) the waste of public money (re prosecution) is one way only, and as ever we are on the sharp end of the stick. As I see it if one is a civil offence then so is the other,(as it is both a one on one dispute) and as such the L.As should certainly water down the offence. I see where your coming from John but if you got into a taxi and say forgot your wallet, would you expect the cab driver to expect to see you arrested? If the LA are taking you on for refusing a fare they need to be certain they are correct because invariably you have the right to appeal their decision. A bloody nose in magistrates very often does the trick. Unfortunately experience tells me in cardiff there are a lot of cherrypickers who are selective in the fares they accept, the approach of many LA's seems to be. Getting a few bad apples using a chainsaw on the tree. CC Have not got a problem with a genuine case, But! when you actually take them to the police station and the police know that they had no intention of paying, it pees me off that they just issue a fixed penalty notice and then tell me to pursue my claim through the courts. The L.A dropped it with me after first of all telling me I was liable to prosecution, I could prove that I was working at the time - the complainant (whoever) was just being malicious. |
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| Author: | cabby john [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:04 pm ] |
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GMB Branch secretary wrote: John if you were a member wed make them prosecute or do it for you, and then hit the politicians and the media with it.
Second point LO are answerable to politicians, get YOUR politicians in power ROCKET SCIENCE??????????????????? DECISIONS ARE TAKEN BY THOSE THAT TURN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!! Terry as a matter of interest re my query, how many cases involving your members have you actually forced the police to prosecute, and how many members of the public have been taken to court by your Union on behalf of your members for defrauding taxi drivers. This must have happened to your members, I know I am not the first. Regards John |
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