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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:50 pm 
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Interesting, very interesting. :wink:

http://www.bailii.org/scot/cases/ScotCS ... IH_30.html

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:53 pm 
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Some interesting points in the report in tonight's Evening Telegraph:

Quote:
But the decision has possible implications for the city as it could open a floodgate for other taxi firms in the city to apply to increase thier number of licenses


I doubt if they could do that, since the reason 203020 will now be allowed the saloons is that that was the policy in operation at the time of the decision - any number of accessible taxis can now be licensed.

Quote:
Mr Young now plans to go ahead and introduce 71 brand new taxis ot the streets of Dundee in a move that he claims will bring cheaper fares for people in the city

He said: "They will all be brand new value cars. Uniquely in Dundee the rate of a taxi fare is set to be the most expensive and the cheapest (??). We plan to bring in these value taxis that will reduce the price of a taxis, which will benefit the people of Dundee.


What this means is anyone's guess, but presumably they won't be Mercs.

ANd what will they do with the TXs, since they won't get drivers fro 71 saloons, they can't get drivers fro the TXs that they have.

But so much for the discredited saloons.

Dundee WAV in the other thread is right, the council should implement one rule for all and sort this mess out.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:02 pm 
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Quote:
http://www.bailii.org/scot/cases/ScotCS/2005/CSIH_30.html

I suspect this judgement will not be welcomed by the Edinburgh cab trade.

There at least 20 chaps have applications for cab plates, and as the last survey I believe was 3 or 4 years ago, one wonders on what grounds those applications could be refused. :-$

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:26 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Quote:
http://www.bailii.org/scot/cases/ScotCS/2005/CSIH_30.html

I suspect this judgement will not be welcomed by the Edinburgh cab trade.

There at least 20 chaps have applications for cab plates, and as the last survey I believe was 3 or 4 years ago, one wonders on what grounds those applications could be refused. :-$


The verdict is consistent with current law. I'm glad this council had the law spelt out to them in plain language. It can only be good for every other council because it sends out a clear message on how to comply with the law when issuing Hackney carriage licenses.

In English law it has been established for quite some time that a council who has not satisfied itself of the level of demand for Taxis must issue licenses until it is satisfied. Saving in the following circumstance, applicable to England and Wales.

A council can defer an applicant for a short period of time while it advises itself if any demand for Taxis exists.

What a council shouldn't do is refuse an application before "it is sure of any unmet demand". This is exactly what Dundee council did and left themselves wide open for a legal Challenge.

I wish the Judges had commented on deferment, because it would have given some indication as to how the Scottish courts might address that situation when confronted with it. Although they didn't comment on the time scale of a survey It was refreshing to see that the judges made their decision on the fact that the Dundee survey was out of time within two years.

I hope that passage has been noted by those who think surveys have a longer life span.

It is also good to see decisions in the Scottish courts being consistent with our own English courts.

In respect of Edinburgh I don't know when they last had a survey and I don't know if they have had a legal challenge, or if indeed an applicant has been refused. However, it is no secret that a council who hasn't measured demand and refuses a licence, will undoubtedly lose any subsequent appeal.

See my quota list of restricted councils in England and Wales that have left themselves wide open to a legal challenge. If you live near to one of these areas and would like a plate and fit the criteria then go and get one because if the council doesn't measure demand, they will certainly lose in a court of law.

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:37 pm 
and they demonstrate what a load of bollocks waiting lists are

in my view they are not of a status in law Sussex says they are.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:48 pm 
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Yorkie wrote:
in my view they are not of a status in law Sussex says they are.

Remind me what my views are. :-k

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:56 pm 
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Yorkie wrote:
and they demonstrate what a load of bollocks waiting lists are

in my view they are not of a status in law Sussex says they are.


The situation regarding waiting lists for Hackney carriages is exactly how it was spelt out in the Dundee case. Where a council hasn't measured demand, waiting lists are meaningless. They only come into play when a council is sure of the level of unmet demand.

It is striking the amount of weight a court places on a survey of unmet demand. The judges in the Dundee case more or less "suggested" that if Dundee Council had been in possession of an up to date survey, at the time they refused the licenses then the would have been quite within their legal right to refuse the applicant.

So there is the legal weight that the judiciary apply to measuring demand. In England and Wales it has stood the test of time since 1987 but we shall see if it stands the test of time after May 2005.

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:13 pm 
Sussex wrote:
Yorkie wrote:
in my view they are not of a status in law Sussex says they are.

Remind me what my views are. :-k


Jesus Christ! YOU QUOTE IT DAILY

YOUR VIEW IS THAT PLATES SHOULD NOT BE SOLD AS IT JUMPS THE WAITING LIST QUE?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:42 pm 
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lol sussex cant see how an ultra capitalist like you can complain about businesses attaining a value :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:15 am 
Well there are a few points here, there is a difference between someone building a buisness and that having a value from thier own efforts, as adverse to someone aquiring wealth from a fortuitous scarcity value that has not anything to do with thier efforts

My buisness has been built in a free market with sweat and toil, at the same time all drivers have been trained to give a service.

Sussex can think of me what he will but I have had my share of surrenderd holidays, and very long hours now as I approach 30 :roll: I do feel that its comming up to the time that I went onto the 40 hour a week my drivers enjoy.

I would be better off managing my fleet for the national bus company.

let me know the dates of the revolution, i will book time off to enjoy the sport with you

Will it start in cartel city?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:44 am 
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Yorkie wrote:
YOUR VIEW IS THAT PLATES SHOULD NOT BE SOLD AS IT JUMPS THE WAITING LIST QUE?

The only reason I say that is because I know it winds some people up. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:17 am 
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So whats the difference between your hard work in a free market and somebody driving for someone, working his proverbials off and then buying a permit?

Is his toil worth less than yours?

Captain cab

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:26 am 
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The Dundonian wrote:
Some interesting points in the report in tonight's Evening Telegraph:

Quote:
But the decision has possible implications for the city as it could open a floodgate for other taxi firms in the city to apply to increase thier number of licenses


I doubt if they could do that, since the reason 203020 will now be allowed the saloons is that that was the policy in operation at the time of the decision - any number of accessible taxis can now be licensed.

Quote:
Mr Young now plans to go ahead and introduce 71 brand new taxis ot the streets of Dundee in a move that he claims will bring cheaper fares for people in the city
DOOOMED DUNDONIAN,DOOMED.
Right in the respect,that it will only be Mr Young that can put on saloon type vehicles.
Cut price taxi fare,hope not, as it is bad enough at the moment to earn a decent living.
Still he tried it before and did not take off to any extent,although at that time there was less HC,s on.
As mentioned problem with trying to find and keep drivers,at the moment,so unless he has some radical ideas to alleviate this problem,can see 203020 struggling to cover the vehicles,double shifting.
Interesting times ahead for Dundee and the 147,000 population with it,s
600 and odd cabs and the potential of another 71 saloons.
Happy motoring. eusasmiles.zip


He said: "They will all be brand new value cars. Uniquely in Dundee the rate of a taxi fare is set to be the most expensive and the cheapest (??). We plan to bring in these value taxis that will reduce the price of a taxis, which will benefit the people of Dundee.


What this means is anyone's guess, but presumably they won't be Mercs.

ANd what will they do with the TXs, since they won't get drivers fro 71 saloons, they can't get drivers fro the TXs that they have.

But so much for the discredited saloons.

Dundee WAV in the other thread is right, the council should implement one rule for all and sort this mess out.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:49 pm 
captain cab wrote:
So whats the difference between your hard work in a free market and somebody driving for someone, working his proverbials off and then buying a permit?

Is his toil worth less than yours?

Captain cab



a big difference, between someone working the free market, and a restricted market, ask Nigel and GA

AS FOR BUYING A PERMIT, this debates continuous on here absolutly continuous

in both you choose you do or do not


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:22 pm 
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Yorkie wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Yorkie wrote:
in my view they are not of a status in law Sussex says they are.

Remind me what my views are. :-k


Jesus Christ! YOU QUOTE IT DAILY

YOUR VIEW IS THAT PLATES SHOULD NOT BE SOLD AS IT JUMPS THE WAITING LIST QUE?


I always take Sussex's comment on this issue as an opinion on the fairness of the scenario, not a statement of the law relating to waiting lists.

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