Taxi Driver Online

UK cab trade debate and advice
It is currently Sun Apr 26, 2026 4:11 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:58 pm
Posts: 2665
Following a decision by Fiscal Neil Allan not to prosecute a passenger who refused to pay the fare on the meter as a criminal offence, the only recourse for drivers who find themselves in this position is through a civil legal suit - a prohibitively expensive and protracted process.

Now there's no point going to the cop shop, they're not interested.

Taxi drivers in Scotland, according to the Fiscal, alone of all traders, do not have the protection of criminal charges against those who refuse to pay - who steal from them.

This means that anyone can engage a taxi, trump up a dispute or not and just refuse to pay, knowing there's little prospect of the driver taking legal action. A free gratis taxi ride.

In England Statutory Law in the guise of the 1998 Theft Act stipulates that anyone who avails himself of a service, and walks away without paying, is committing an act of Theft. There is no such protection in Scotland.

Rather than Law by Statute as in England, Scots Law is based on Common Law and Case Law. There is therefore no equivalent Law of Theft in Scotland.

Fiscals will only prosecute those who engage a taxi without having the means to pay, and then only when it suits them. They construe this as intent to defraud - Taxi Fraud.

In the case above the individual had money, so according to Fiscal Neil Allan, no fraud had been committed.

The taxi driver believes that the crime was committed when the individual evacuated from the taxi (Actus Reus) and his intent to commit the crime (Mens Rea) was proven when both the police officer and the driver urged him to pay the fare, which he refused to do, so he knew exactly what he was doing.

If this was a shoplifter or someone handed a penalty notice by a police officer for not paying on a train, then criminal charges would be brought. But not for stealing from a taxi driver.

There is a customer complaints procedure through the local authority. Hoverr, the right to make formal complaint and seek redress should not include a right not to pay - of course it doesn't.

The Fiscal's decision has brought chaos to the working lives of cabbies, and represents a real danger to the public.

It's hard going in our economy just now. How long before a hard pressed cabbie, already struggling to make ends meet, decides that because the Law wont give him protection and justice he will therefore take Law into his own hands and mete out his own retribution, just to gain what is rightfully his in the first place?

The Fiscal's intransigent incompetence in this area has placed the public at risk.

An approach has been made to the political arena. Questions are to be asked of the Lord Advocate and the Justice Secretary, Kenny MacAskill.

The story has been given to the press by the MSP involved, both national and local. It will break soon, probably early next week.

Hopefully it will invoke a positive response and a sensible resolution to this problem from senior Law officers and politicians. Theft is theft. Theft is a criminal offence. The same rule should apply here.

The way forward here could be for the individual involved here to be charged, prosecuted, the case heard by a Sheriff and any conviction in the case, subject of course to any appeal process, resulting in the establishing of a new Case law.

In the meantime, the shecht is about to hit the fan. It will cause uproar.

Just remember that this has been a problem for cabbies for as long as we can remember. It needs to be sorted. Short term pain for long term gain. The Police, prosecutors, the council, the taxi trade and customers all need to know what the position is, and it has to offer drivers the same protection as every other trader.

Just remember, our trade can not condone violence. This is a time to keep a cool head and respond with outrage during the debate. Get onto your MSP and tell him what you think, write to the press expressing your disgust.

Let's get this sorted!

_________________
Skull, "You are a police inspector, aren't you?"
Cab Inspector Smith, "Yes."
Skull, "So, are you going to tell Mr Taylor what his rights are?"
Smith, "And ... What rights?"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57333
Location: 1066 Country
Jasbar wrote:
In England Statutory Law in the guise of the 1998 Theft Act stipulates that anyone who avails himself of a service, and walks away without paying, is committing an act of Theft. There is no such protection in Scotland.

About time the Scottish Gov sorted this.

They can't blame the English for this mess.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:11 pm
Posts: 8119
Location: A Villa in Aston NO MORE!
Then it has to be MUF on all taxi jobs in Scotland, until this is sorted out.

Just imagine if every cabbie in Scotland asked for MUF on every job from everybody for a week; it would soon get noticed & something would be done swiftly.

Good luck with this one.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:04 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: SCOTLAND
I can back this story up.Not so long a go a colleague of mine went into a yard being used by private hire to pick up from a night club.He asked the driver to take him home and when he got there refused to pay. He was trying to make the point that they were picking up illegally.The private hire driver driver called the police and my colleague was charged with taxi fraud,the fiscal latter drop the charges.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:33 pm
Posts: 1357
Location: grangemouth
could one of the more legal minded contributors on here draft a letter we can download and amend to our own details, and those of our respective MSPs, in order to mount a concerted campaign to adopt the English system to protect us against this practice, before it ruins our trade. I would try, but one word in the wrong place would negate any worth it may have had.

_________________
My heart is heavy, but my consience clear,
I voted Yes, without any fear.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 14152
Location: Wirral
Quote:
The story has been given to the press by the MSP involved, both national and local. It will break soon, probably early next week.


The down side to this is that it will also educate the public on how not to pay for taxis eusasmiles.zip

_________________
Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:23 am
Posts: 624
Location: North Wales
Until this is sorted out in law, I would urge all our brothers & sisters up north to obtain the fare up front before departure. You would if you got on a bus or a train!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:33 pm
Posts: 1357
Location: grangemouth
I'm lucky insofar that I work in a rural area, and most of my customers are regulars. My worries are with the "city/big town" drivers who rely on trust more so than myself. When the populace get wind of this, they'll suffer from the first editions hitting the news stands. Can the press release not be recalled, until the Government have time to sort this out? Then all the no-marks can rue the missed opportunity, and we can carry on striving to make a living wage.

_________________
My heart is heavy, but my consience clear,
I voted Yes, without any fear.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 10:30 am
Posts: 56
Location: The Athens of the north
Can we not just do what they do in other less civilised countries??? Call our friends to errrrrrr help get a payment from the customer????

Oh I almost forgot, MR. Jasper doesn't have any friends in Edinburgh to call upon. :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:58 pm
Posts: 2665
Billy the Kid wrote:
Can we not just do what they do in other less civilised countries??? Call our friends to errrrrrr help get a payment from the customer????

Oh I almost forgot, MR. Jasper doesn't have any friends in Edinburgh to call upon. :lol:


A cheap shot about someone who is at least trying to do something about it.

Your problem, like the rest of the Scottish numpties is that you're so hooked on personalities you would ignore the real issues.

Now this post was made on this forum because it allows real debate without attracting the boo boys. You want to behave like a child then please do so on the child site. I'll even supply the link -

http://www.thetaxiforum.com/

Leave this forum for the big boys.

8)

_________________
Skull, "You are a police inspector, aren't you?"
Cab Inspector Smith, "Yes."
Skull, "So, are you going to tell Mr Taylor what his rights are?"
Smith, "And ... What rights?"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:07 am
Posts: 2596
Location: Hampshire (HC)
Is there anyway of funding an appeal? I'm sure a higher court would have to overturn this decision.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:07 am
Posts: 2596
Location: Hampshire (HC)
grumpy wrote:
could one of the more legal minded contributors on here draft a letter we can download and amend to our own details, and those of our respective MSPs, in order to mount a concerted campaign to adopt the English system to protect us against this practice, before it ruins our trade. I would try, but one word in the wrong place would negate any worth it may have had.


If you'd like to draft what you wish to say, I'm sure one or two would be happy to suggest amendments for you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:33 pm
Posts: 1357
Location: grangemouth
Will do. In the interim, I sent this e-mail, earlier today, to Cathy Peatie, MSP for Falkirk East.


Dear Cathy, I write to you concerning a topic that has been posted on the following website, www.taxi-driver.co.uk. The thread concerns a judgement made by Fiscal Neil Allan regarding a customer refusing to pay his taxi fare. It seems this is not considered a criminal offence in Scotland, as it is in England.
As a taxi driver of 13 years standing, I was always under the impression that I had the law supporting me in such cases, when the customer denies me my due fare. If this is, as it seems to be, not the case, could I ask you to support any motion, that may be placed before the Scottish Government, to bring Scotland into line with the English Legislation. I have included a link to the pertinate thread for your perusal. I hope to have a draft copy of a letter to the Government and Kenny McAskill, posted on the site by one of the trade reps. I will be encouraging my fellow taxi drivers to forward it, duly completed in due course. In the meantime I felt I had to bring this worrying topic to your attention.

LINK: http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11826

Best Regards

Allan Dickie

_________________
My heart is heavy, but my consience clear,
I voted Yes, without any fear.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:54 am
Posts: 10460
grumpy wrote:
Will do. In the interim, I sent this e-mail, earlier today, to Cathy Peatie, MSP for Falkirk East.


Dear Cathy, I write to you concerning a topic that has been posted on the following website, www.taxi-driver.co.uk. The thread concerns a judgement made by Fiscal Neil Allan regarding a customer refusing to pay his taxi fare. It seems this is not considered a criminal offence in Scotland, as it is in England.
As a taxi driver of 13 years standing, I was always under the impression that I had the law supporting me in such cases, when the customer denies me my due fare. If this is, as it seems to be, not the case, could I ask you to support any motion, that may be placed before the Scottish Government, to bring Scotland into line with the English Legislation. I have included a link to the pertinate thread for your perusal. I hope to have a draft copy of a letter to the Government and Kenny McAskill, posted on the site by one of the trade reps. I will be encouraging my fellow taxi drivers to forward it, duly completed in due course. In the meantime I felt I had to bring this worrying topic to your attention.

LINK: http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11826

Best Regards

Allan Dickie


Quality Grumpy, you might want to send your letter to the Lord Advocate, Elish Angiolini.



:wink:

_________________
All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.
George Orwell, "Animal Farm"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:07 am
Posts: 2596
Location: Hampshire (HC)
Excellent.

I would include a comment about 'shoplifting' from shops being a criminal offence but not 'shoplifting' from taxis. The point needs to be made that theft is theft, regardless of the guise in which it appears.

Although it is not my thread, I also invite Cathy Peatie to raise any clarifications she may require, on this thread, in order that we may attempt to answer them for her.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 407 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group