Taxi Driver Online

Nothing particularly new here, but an actual photo of an Uber PHV on a rank

Or at least it says it's a rank, but must be one of those where the cars sit at right angles rather than nose-to-tail

And that could well be faded 'taxi' markings on the ground...

There are brief audio recordings from the trade rep and the MP on the website, but I wouldn't bother if you're in a hurry

Another motley crew in the photo, though


Harborough Taxi Drivers Demand Action On Out-Of-Town Cabs

https://harboroughfm.co.uk/harborough-t ... town-cabs/


Concerned drivers with Harborough MP Neil O’Brien (Image: Harborough FM)

Taxi drivers in Market Harborough say their livelihoods are being threatened by out-of-town Uber cabs.

Some Uber drivers have been using the town centre rank and there are reports of them picking up fares which have not been pre-booked – both of which they are not allowed to do.

Harborough-based drivers say this is taking business away from them and following a meeting Harborough MP Neil O’Brien, Harborough District Council has pledged to act.

Uber drivers from as far away as Wolverhampton have been operating in the town and do not have to fulfil the council’s specific licensing requirements, such as successful completion of a knowledge test for the area.

Ricardo Macys runs Macys Taxis in Market Harborough and spoke to HFM about the issue.

Uber is not a licensed operator in the Harborough District, meaning town-based drivers are not allowed to join the network, although any driver with a private-hire licence from any local authority can use it to operate anywhere in England and Wales, but cannot use taxi ranks outside their home area.

MP Neil O’Brien spoke to HFM.


Image: Harborough FM

Cllr Darren Woodiwiss, Harborough District Council’s Cabinet lead for Environmental and Climate Change, said: “Out-of-town drivers who are not licensed through the council are prohibited from using taxi ranks in and around Market Harborough and picking up unsolicited fares.

“We understand the frustrations of our local taxi drivers and the safety concerns they have raised and will look to undertake some weekend evening surveillance. We will also discuss the issues with them at the next scheduled taxi forum meeting.

“National legislation dictates that we only have enforcement powers to deal with drivers licensed by the council, however, if reported, we will always ask drivers licensed by another local authority to move on when they are observed using a taxi rank in the district and make contact with the relevant local authority who can deal with the driver directly.”

Uber has been approached for comment.

This looks like the rank in a previous article

This StreetView maybe explains it

Looks like you'd be tight to get even three cars on there, and other articles make it sound like there's only one rank in town.

So they'll be sitting side-by-side to maximise space, basically

Or at least that's what I'm thinking - that the official view is that it's supposed to be used as a normal rank.

On the other hand, it does look on the wide side for a rank, so maybe the photos are showing the official usage

And no clues from the signage either - it just says 'No stopping except taxis'.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.47813 ... ?entry=ttu

And if you look back using the 'See more dates' option on the StreetView, it's obvious that there's not really any kind of queueing order on the ranks, thus the kind of thing that would pi$$ me off big style, particularly as an independent driver - it would mainly benefit office cars that want to jump the queue, basically

And the punters will just take any car, based on whatever criteria they adopt, which, of course, will in turn benefit drivers who will exploit it all to queue jump, effectively

That kind of thing is bad enough in St Andrews even with nose-to-tail ranks, and the kind of arrangement in the photos would just make it all a whole lot worse

How does anyone know who's first, and what happens when a cab leaves, do they all shunt up one?

_________________
IDFIMH

Under normal situations the Hackney drivers work with each other on the rank by telling the custermers who is next and it has worked like that for many years.

_________________
Grandad,

What do you mean by 'normal situations', Grandad? In Melton? Or do you know the rank etiquette in Market Harborough well enough to comment?

Well I certainly don't know the latter other than the evidence from the photos and Google.

And, as per what I'd said yesterday, the evidence (and personal experience) suggests to me that it's a total free-for-all

Look in particular at the StreetView from 2016:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.47816 ... ?entry=ttu

I'd kind of guess that they're grouped by office there - the three to the left from the same firm, and the red one from another office? More interesting, maybe, is who came first? Maybe the firm has its own code, so maybe they would pass a run up to the car that came first. But I'd guess they'd grab a run that came to them, even if the red car had been there first. Of course, maybe the silver cabs were there first, and in fact it's the red one who's trying to steal a march on them. And I'd also guess that one end of the rank is preferable to be at as opposed to the other, but if there's only one car on the rank, and another comes along, then the second car might well just go to the 'bad' end of the rank, merely because that end of the rank isn't so good for getting a run, but it's maybe better to be first car at the 'bad' end of the rank, rather than second car at the 'good' end

And, of course, particularly if the driver is inexperienced, their judgement as regards where best to stop may not be the best. For example, it may be best to be at one end of the rank during certain times of day (shopping hours, most obviously), but better to be at the other end of the rank when the pubs and clubs are open (or chucking out, more obviously).

Anyway, if anyone's read the possibly thousands of words I've written about this kind of stuff on here over the years then they'd maybe conclude that there's no such thing as a 'normal situation', at least as regards the trade nationally, as opposed to local rules, etiquette and custom.

Could write a short book on this kind of stuff in my own manor, but suffice to say that even in a more standard row of cars there's almost zero etiquette as regards this kind of thing, and drivers will grab any fare that comes to them - the only exception being if it's a short run, and they calculate (often incorrectly) that they'd get a better run by waiting.

But, for example, even considering just our main night rank, there are several obvious points where passengers will approach the rank out of turn, and the driver will simply grab the run.

First is the takeaway opposite cars two and three on the rank. Next is probably the gap that often arises in the row of cabs at the parking meter which abuts onto the rank half way down (it's a standard parking area during the daytime hours). I suspect some passengers view the gap as representing the front of some kind of second rank, whereas it's just a gap caused by the parking meter, not to mention the various parked cars belonging to members of the public, which can sit on the rank illegally all night.

Psychologically, I think some people just don't like crossing any gap in the rank cars, even though they're fully aware that it's actually one queue of taxis.

Next is the pub down at the other end of the rank, where people often jump in. Also simply the back car on the rank, if the person is arriving from the back rather than front of the rank, obviously. It's the 'nearest car' scenario, simply put.

So, for example, if a person coming out of the pub at the far end of the rank just jumps into the nearest car, if there's 20 cars on the rank then that would be car 18 or so. But if there's 10 cars on the rank then it's car 10, for obvious reasons - the back car is closest rather than the car closest to the pub door

On the other hand, 'normal situations' can vary depending on stuff like demographics and the particular rank. Students are by far the worst for not going to the front car. And often alcohol is probably an issue here. And a lot of people don't like the bigger 4+ seating cabs.

From the rank perspective, the 'normal situation' is different at our rail station as opposed to the town ranks. So years ago the council redesigned the station such that the station pedestrian exit is adjacent to cars three and four. Which, given that it's commonplace to wait a couple of hours at the station, could mean that a car could arrive just as the train was coming in, grab a run immediately, and leave the front car high and dry. And if it's the last train they could well have been there a couple of hours and would then just have to pull off empty.

So the drivers developed a code of conduct, whereby fares are directed to the front car if they try to get in mid-rank. Which generally works OK, but of course because when the train comes in (maybe after an hour without any) it can all be over very quickly, thus the front car can be left high and dry due to genuine driver error rather than any kind of 'cheating'. (For example, seen plenty of pax with luggage in the boot, and for whatever reason they end up back out of the car with their luggage back out of the boot as well, and by that time maybe cars two, three and four are off with the fares. And the next train is an hour away. Oh, wait, it's been cancelled because of a 'lack of train crew'). And the next train is twenty minutes late leaving Edinburgh because of a 'fault on the train'

Anyways, apart from that, I haven't really got any particular views on stuff like this.

(In reality, the above is the short version )

The rank at Lewes station used to be like the one at Market Harborough and I could never work out who was first, second, third etc. But that was 40 years ago when I used to be friendly with a very nice young lady from there.

But now cabs rank normally and everyone knows who is first i.e. the one at the front.

_________________
IDFIMH

By normal condition I mean when you just had harborough plated Hackneys using the rank. Over the years I havedone loads of work in Market Harborough and spoken to loads of their Hackney drivers and one one evening when I was early for my pick up (stretched limousine) I did actually ask a driver how it worked and that is what he told me.

_________________
Grandad,

Grandad, you mean you believed them?

I don't doubt what you say about what you were told, but on the other hand it could well be something that should be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

But, instinctively, it just doesn't look to me like the kind of arrangement that would actually work, whatever the theory might be.

And, looking back at the previous available StreetViews, there's no obvious sign of any pecking order. And, even assuming the first car was at one designated end of the rank, moving up every time the first car gets a run just doesn't seem practicable, particularly as panning round on the StreetViews on the various available dates suggests it's quite a narrow and busy road, thus would be nigh near impossible for cars to move up in an orderly fashion without causing an element of disruption (I'd guess even cars reversing into it would cause a fair bit of disruption, and the kind of thing that would annoy members of the public, never mind several cars pulling in and out every time a car left the rank).

The positioning of the cars on the StreetViews also suggests a lack of any pecking order. I mean, some show two cars, both near the 'Oxfam' end of the rank. Another shows two cars at the other end of the rank. Or one or two cars which just look randomly positioned, with no obvious order at all in terms of any kind of queue.

So, as Sussex asked earlier: "How does anyone know who's first, and what happens when a cab leaves, do they all shunt up one?"

So the evidence suggests they don't all 'shunt up one'. But, even assuming there was still some kind of pecking order, as Sussex asks, 'how does anyone know who's first'?

Impossible, I would say, particularly if the rank was busy, and especially if there was no association between the drivers.

Maybe if there was a couple of cars there, and particularly if the drivers were part of the same office, say, then it might work in such a scenario. But not with cars coming and going from various points on the rank, and with no formal association with each other.

I mean, for example, if a car left the rank at the Oxfam end of the rank, and there were several cars mid-rank, how would a driver at the other end of the rank even know if the car had left with a fare, or drove off for a pre-booked run?

And that's just from the driver's perspective - I just can't imagine how a driver mid-rank would direct a passenger to the 'first' car, even if the driver knew which car was 'first', and the passenger was compliant.

For example, one reason every driver in St Andrews will grab a fare mid-rank is because they know there's a fair chance that even if they directed the passenger to another car then the passenger would just go to the next nearest car, therefore...

Also, here even drivers from the same office will grab a run mid-rank from drivers from the same office, never mind other offices and independents

Even reversing on to the rank looks problematic, never mind shunting up once a car leaves.

It's close to a traffic light junction. And this view shows the predictable van parked across two rank spaces

Might be a bit easier to get in and out at night, though

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.47822 ... ?entry=ttu

despite appearances it's not that busy a road as the through traffic(a6) has a bypass and even some of the other routes traffic is directed away from there. Although I hardly ever go through market harborough these days I can't ever recall seeing a taxi on the rank.

_________________
lack of modern legislation is the iceberg sinking the titanic of the transport sector

Of course I believed them.
If there had been a problem previously don't you think there would be some newspaper reports of it being an issue?

_________________
Grandad,

Grandad, you mean things like queue-jumping taxi drivers aren't an issue because they're not in the local press?

Don't know where to start replying to that...but it would take too long, and be a complete waste of effort, so we'll just have to agree to disagree

Anyway, this is a different angle to it all on the Leicester Mercury's website, which is also on the Harborough Mail's website.

By the standards of these things, the issues here are quite well explained, in my opinion at least.

But the usual slightly dodgy terminology, such as the councillor with the fancy job title (as per usual) talking about 'unsolicited fares'. Which kind of implies that it's OK for local HCDs to solicit fares. But soliciting is, I think, the same as touting, effectively, therefore...

And then there's Uber saying they'll 'reach out' to the council

As some used to say on Twitter, unless you're a member of the Four Tops...

But I think the excruciating 'reach out' phrase has become common enough now that no-one ever notices how daft it sounds...


MP's safety warning Harborough taxi drivers licenced elsewhere are 'doing illicit cash-in-hand work'

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news ... xi-9146413

There are fears that Harborough passengers' safety is at risk and they may be treated badly

A Leicestershire MP has claimed Uber drivers are using local taxi ranks illegally and fears this could cause problems for passengers. Harborough MP Neil O'Brien has expressed deep worry about these drivers, claiming that if they are "doing illicit cash-in-hand work", there will "be a safety problem at some point".

Taxi drivers are licensed with Harborough District Council and undergo "more rigorous testing" than drivers from other areas might, Mr O'Brien said. Uber drivers have to be licensed, but not with the local authority of the area in which they work. If drivers from outside the district are picking up passengers from taxi ranks illegally, the "fear" is they might also have "poor standards more generally and treat passengers badly", the MP added.

It also takes trade and earnings from local drivers, who have paid to be able to work in the district. Mr O'Brien said taxi drivers had told him they have to pay up to £1,000 to do their job, including to be regulated by Harborough District Council and to use official taxi ranks.

Harborough District Council said they would be discussing the issues with local taxi drivers at the next forum meeting. In the meantime, they said they would undertake some weekend evening surveillance.

MP Neil O'Brien said: “The taxi drivers in Harborough are regulated by the local council and they have to pay significant sums of money to operate in our area. Typically, this will be £320 for their taxi licences, a further £360 to EMR for use of the taxi rank at Market Harborough Station, plus other costs that can take the total bill to around £1,000. Additionally, taxi drivers here go through much more rigorous testing to get their taxi licences than in other areas.

“Despite this, Harborough taxi drivers are facing a challenge from Uber drivers who are licenced in other council areas. These councils have much lower standards and charge a lot less than the licences issued in Harborough. Despite this, I understand that Uber drivers are using the taxi ranks and picking up fares in the town, which they are not allowed to do.

"Often these drivers have come from quite far away. I am worried that if taxi drivers from elsewhere are hanging around here, and doing illicit cash-in-hand work which they are not allowed to do, that there will be a safety problem at some point.

“The Harborough taxi drivers told me that they want the council to take proper enforcement action to avoid these abuses and to ensure that they can operate properly, as per the terms of their licences issued by the council in Harborough. As such, I have written to Harborough Council to see what they can do to crack down on this kind of behaviour from taxis that are licenced elsewhere. Hopefully, they will take action.”

Regarding the safety fears, he added: "The fear is that if people from all around the country are coming and doing illegal cash-in-hand taxi work they may also have poor standards more generally and treat passengers badly. The whole point of licencing is that it should be simple to contact the council and get redress if there is a problem."

Coun Darren Woodiwiss, Harborough District Council’s cabinet lead for environmental and climate change, said: “Out-of-town drivers who are not licensed through the council are prohibited from using taxi ranks in and around Market Harborough and picking up unsolicited fares. We understand the frustrations of our local taxi drivers and the safety concerns they have raised and will look to undertake some weekend evening surveillance.

"We will also discuss the issues with them at the next scheduled taxi forum meeting. National legislation dictates that we only have enforcement powers to deal with drivers licensed by the council. However, if reported, we will always ask drivers licensed by another local authority to move on when they are observed using a taxi rank in the district and make contact with the relevant local authority who can deal with the driver directly.”

An Uber spokesperson said: “Uber is committed to safety and raising standards across the industry. All private hire trips in the UK must be pre-booked and private hire drivers are not permitted to use taxi ranks. We are reaching out to Harborough District Council to discuss steps we can take to address any concerns.”

Any younger readers who don't get the Four Tops reference should have a listen here. Although even I was just a 2-year-old when it was released in 1966, but it's one of these tunes that surely everyone recognises, even if they couldn't name the band, or whatever...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rU2IBWDo2s

Have you ever been to Market Harborough? Have you ever spoken to any Market Harborough drivers?
Things in small Market towns around here may be a bit different to where you are but when everyone knows everyone else in the game they tend to be a bit more civil. The issues are with the out of town unknown drivers who have started to frequent our small towns and just do what they want.

_________________
Grandad,