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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2025 2:30 pm 
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...and also this good summary of the trade rep view from the previous committee session, although not entirely clear why this is published now...


TAXI AND PHV INQUIRY: MPs told cross-border licensing chaos is ‘flooding’ regions with drivers and driving down pay

https://www.taxi-point.co.uk/post/taxi- ... vers-and-d



Surprised it doesn't mention the c-a-p word, but I suppose that would be a bit awkward given that it quotes Dave Lawrie :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2025 8:43 pm 
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No massive surprises during the second round of oral evidence.

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/8 ... 717f29d6d1

The first lot of speakers;

Emma O'Dwyer
Director of Public Policy at Uber
Andrew Wescott
Corporate and Government Affairs Director at Veezu Ltd
Kimberly Hurd
Senior General Manager for the UK and Ireland at Bolt
Mark Robinson
Owner and Director at Vokes Taxis Limited


I felt sorry for Mr Robinson, who is clearly a born and bred cabby, who also happens to own a cab firm. He was up against Uber, Bolt and Veezu. In short, he had hardly any time to put any points across, which IMO reflects badly on the committee.

As for the other three, it will shock no one on TDO that they kept very close to their normal script, akin to a dodgy Indian call centre. I will say no more than we have heard the same old sh** from them 1000s of times over the years, and one day they might actually believe it themselves.

The second part of today's hearing was far more interesting, in fact a lot more than I thought it would be.

Emma Vogelmann
Co-CEO and Head of Policy, Public Affairs and Campaigns at Transport for All
Saskia Garner
Head of Policy and Campaigns at Suzy Lamplugh Trust
Councillor Arooj Shah
Chair of the Neighbourhoods Policy Committee at Local Government Association
James Button
Director at Institute of Licensing


Whilst not agreeing with everything that was said, I think they were genuine in their beliefs and views. I thought Mr Button, on behalf of the IoL, came across very well, and spoke a lot of sense. Maybe it helped that he didn't repeat his one big national licensing authority plan.

The councillor also came across well, and I wish she were a councillor in Wolverhampton rather than Oldham. The lady from the disability group and the lady from the Suzy Lamplugh Trust both got their points across well, and did so in a manner that didn't involve following a script.

All that said, did the committee learn anything new today? I very much doubt it.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2025 10:55 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
As for the other three, it will shock no one on TDO that they kept very close to their normal script, akin to a dodgy Indian call centre. I will say no more than we have heard the same old sh** from them 1000s of times over the years, and one day they might actually believe it themselves.

And I thought I was the cynic-in-chief on here :lol:

Quote:
I thought Mr Button, on behalf of the IoL, came across very well, and spoke a lot of sense. Maybe it helped that he didn't repeat his one big national licensing authority plan.

Maybe he's realised, in view of the amount of division in the trade and between local authorties and politicans etc, that it was a non-starter, because it would basically require every council in the country to agree to the scheme and to agree to a standard spec etc. Which would never happen [-(

(But considering how long Mr Button has been steeped in it all, and in view of his gargantuan knowledge of the legal dimension, you'd think he'd have known that years ago anyway. On the other hand, we're all a tad naive about what happens outside our own immediate domain, irrespective of level of skills and knowledge etc :? )


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2025 10:56 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
The councillor also came across well, and I wish she were a councillor in Wolverhampton rather than Oldham.

Ooft - I didn't realise who it was until I just googled her name :-o

Have come across her name on social media often enough, usually in relation to the grooming gang stuff :-o

Make of this what you want, but the likes of this was posted on Twitter about the same time she would have been before the TransComm, and when news of her 'council leader of the year' award was making the news :-o

https://x.com/recusant_raja/status/1991075263115882792

So there's this today:

Image


But there's also this online:

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2025 10:57 pm 
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But this is the more mainstream reportage relating to her views:


'All communities' want to see grooming gangs punished, says Council leader

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2025-0 ... cil-leader


But in that context it will be interesting to actually watch her performance in front of TransComm :-o

When I get round to watching it. Probably around 2035 or so :lol: :oops:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2025 11:14 pm 
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the lass needs to have a word with the person who does her eyebrows

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2025 1:31 am 
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Watched about ten minutes in total, and don't think I'd manage it all without losing the will to live ](*,)

I mean, right from the start it's all 'we partner with' and 'onboarding' etc.

Then the likes of the Veezu bod taking the moral high ground about cross-bordering by saying they had ops' licences in all the areas they're working in - er, so Veezu don't do cross-border working? :-s

Then they were kind of asked about Wolverhampton, I think (or it was alluded to), and whether they use their cars. To be honest I'm not entirely sure if Bolt and Veezu use Wolves on a grand scale, but I certainly know Uber does, YET THEY DIDN'T ASK THE UBER REP ](*,) :lol:

And, of course, they were all effectively saying it would all be wonderful if cross-border cars could be enforced properly - er, hello? Local enforcement against local cars in the likes of Rochdale and Rotherham went well, didn't it?

Then did I hear correctly and one of the 'ride-hailing' reps didn't seem to understand what the word malicious meant? :-o

One surprise, though, was that Dr Scott Arthur (former transport convener in Edinburgh) seemed a bit more on the drivers' side, and was asking quite astute and searching questions of Uber =D>

Then Ms Uber said that a Frontier Econcomics study they'd commissioned had said that for a 30 hour week drivers were earning £43k before costs, and £36k after costs? Er, hello? For a start, presumably she's not including commission in that? If £43k was total fares, commission would be north of £10k...

And even if it's assumed £43k is after commission, what kind of cars are they running such that they can take maybe £60k in fares (or whatever) and it only costs £7k to run the car? :lol:

You'd probably need more than £7k for fuel alone - that works out at £140 per week, or so :roll:

Maybe the cars run on fresh air, but even then £7k per annum to run a car sounds like total BS :roll:

I mean, what would the average Uber driver be paying in insurance? £2-3k, surely?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2025 1:33 am 
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Anyway, I gave up at that point, because I was on a bit of a high about Dr Arthur's questioning, but got the horrible feeling that it would all come crashing down if I watched any more :lol:

But this is the link to the vid if anyone hasn't seen it - I should really watch stuff like that in the car, but for some reason I have to do it from home :roll:

https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/8 ... 717f29d6d1


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2025 10:05 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
Then Ms Uber said that a Frontier Econcomics study they'd commissioned had said that for a 30 hour week drivers were earning £43k before costs, and £36k after costs? Er, hello? For a start, presumably she's not including commission in that? If £43k was total fares, commission would be north of £10k...

And even if it's assumed £43k is after commission, what kind of cars are they running such that they can take maybe £60k in fares (or whatever) and it only costs £7k to run the car? :lol:

You'd probably need more than £7k for fuel alone - that works out at £140 per week, or so :roll:

Maybe the cars run on fresh air, but even then £7k per annum to run a car sounds like total BS :roll:

I mean, what would the average Uber driver be paying in insurance? £2-3k, surely?

An interesting breakdown was done on the LadBible site.

https://www.ladbible.com/news/uk-news/u ... 8-20251119

Basically, in a week the driver was paid for 13 hours of driving, although it doesn't say how many hours he was sitting around doing nothing.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2025 3:38 pm 
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Watched a wee bit of the other panel as well late the other night, and could spend hours and hours wittering on about the maybe 20 minutes in total I watched. As I'm sure all of us could :-o

But some other thoughts that have popped into my head maybe 24+ hours later, so maybe they're the more important bits - or, at least, important to me [-(

The Uber rep was certainly under the cosh over drivers' earnings, and deservedly so, and could spend ages going through all of that. And imagine if we were able to ask them questions like the committee members...

As I said last night, good questioning from Dr Scott Arthur in that regard, but he fell down a bit on the WAV stuff, when there was effectively no differentiation between HCs and PHVs in the discussion. And if they were gunning for getting a certain %age PH as WAVs, then that begged the usual (unasked) question, who runs the WAVs, and who gets to run the Skoda Scalas? :lol:

(And although I know him primarily as the former Edinburgh Council transport chair (or convener up here), I didn't know he'd also been on the licensing committee 8-[

So to the extent that he's all cycle lanes, public transport and 20mph limits along wide-open, deserted roads at 3am, and was also a licensing councillor, I doubt if the Edinburgh trade are a particular fan of his.

And one bit that stood out from the Medway op was when (I'm sure) he stated that income was hugely down locally because of *unlicensed* cars? I suspect he actually means cars not licensed locally, and should have been pulled up on that.

And although I only watched snippets of the last meeting, and only snippets of this one, at a rough guess I'd say the committee members are a bit better informed than last time round, and the questioning more astute.

Was very impressed when one of the MPs (Alex Mayer, who's a woman :-s ) asked something about 'app based private hire', or something like that, so a much more accurate description than the 'ride-hailing giant' pish used on TaxiPoint et al [-(

(And also instructive in that regard that the Veezu bod stated the split they have between app and telephone bookings - was it 30% telephone, or the other way round? Anyway, whatever the numbers, that illustrates that it's more of a spectrum between phone-only ops (only very small ones now, I'd guess), the now vast majority using phones and apps, and the app-only platforms (aka 'ride-hailers').)

And also a tad surprising that the discussion questioned the whole councillor/licensing committee thing, and whether there was an alternative. Surprised Mr Button or others didn't use the term quasi-judicial (although maybe it was used at other times), which is obviously quite a technical term, but surely not too technical for a committee of the legislature, aka Parliament :-o )

But, of course, all the participants were basically promoting a sectional interest, for good or bad. The Oldham councillor, for example, certainly sounded impressive enough in a superficial sense at least. But you'd also think the same of the Wolverhampton bod the other week, although since we all know what's gone on at Wolverhampton then we all know he's basically BSing.

The Vokes op, for example, obviously wanted a return to the scenario pertaining 15 years ago, or whatever, because that dimension of capture promoted his vested interest.

Or James Button representing the IoL didn't want certain aspects of local control decided nationally, because obviously that would undermine the interests of IoL members :-o

And the Suzy Lamplugh rep was impressive enough, but slightly predictable because we all have a fair idea what the Trust is all about.

The other passenger rep was also fairly predictable, and that ghost-like figure via the screen was a tad unnerving 8-[

And after all that I'm glad I only watched a wee bit :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2025 3:59 pm 
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Oh aye, another new term that they're all using now (or, at least, all the big players), along with 'onboarding' and 'driver partners' etc.

So lots of use of the word 'deactivation' :-o

Which was what in the past? 'Suspension', maybe? Well indeed circuits often talk about suspending drivers, but the word sounds more like the term used in relation to the licensing dimension, specifically.

Or maybe something like 'kicked off', or given the boot, or just sacked...

But, of course, unlike 'driver-partner', say, 'deactivate' lends itself well to the tech age, rather than maybe telling a driver to switch his two-way radio off :lol:

And maybe also interesting about what terms like 'deactivation' mean in the context of employment status. I mean, maybe the committee should have commented on the fact that all that kind of talk doesn't really sound like it's about the self-employed...

Likewise the word 'onboarding' [-(


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2025 6:34 pm 
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I wish I had a pound for every time I heard 'national standards' in the four sessions (two meetings) we have had so far. If so, I would be able to have a week or so in the Seychelles. :shock:

But it's all a load of old bo*****s.

How can we have the same entry criteria for a PH driver in some god forsaken rural ghost village, and a hackney driver in Birmingham? Same with vehicles. Is every hackney in the country going to be the same as the vehicles used by our friends in London, or will London allow saloons to become hackneys?

Maybe the answer will be national minimum standards, but that then negates the case for stopping license area shopping.

I suppose a case could be made for having national standards for PH drivers, which would remove the option for councils to require PH knowledge. But do we really want that?

In respect of vehicles, will we all have to be electric like London, or will London now have to allow petrol/diesel PHVs?

There is a reason that the law hasn't really changed since 1847 or 1976, and I'm not sure that reason has reached those members on the Transport Committee.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2025 2:59 pm 
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Well indeed, Sussex =D>

And which evidence ably demonstrates that, particularly under the current legislation, James Button's idea of designating one local authority to effectively act as a national regulator was always a non-starter.

It would require all 270 authorities, and the thousands of councillors, politicians, officials and trade interests to all agree on a single spec, then all get together and agree to implement it :-s

Was never going to happen [-(


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2025 2:11 am 
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Did anyone see that piece on Taxi Point the other day about the 'private meeting' scheduled for this morning? :-o

https://committees.parliament.uk/event/ ... e-meeting/

The Taxi Point piece was about what would be discussed and who would be attending (although there were no actual names, organisations or other attendees specified).

As I recall it, it was more about grassroots drivers and the pressures of the job etc, and maybe stuff that couldn't be discussed publicly because of confidentiality issues etc.

But I thought it was funny that Taxi Point seemed to have the inside track on it all, but there was absolutely nothing I could see in the public domain about it, and there's zero information via the official TransComm stuff, as far as I can see.

Even funnier still, the Taxi Point article seems to have disappeared 8-[

This was the URL, according to my browser history.

https://www.taxi-point.co.uk/post/trans ... rs-next-ph

I think the truncated word at the end would have been 'phase', but basically the operative words in the link are 'private roundtable with drivers' :-o

Anyway, I don't think there was anything in the piece that was a total surprise, but, you know.

I actually meant to post the article (or at least a link) on here yesterday, but didn't have time, and it's since disappeared...


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2025 2:28 am 
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Another thing I came across via Taxi Point (premium edition, which I'm not subscribed to [-( ) is that the DfT have made a submission, which was published about a fortnight ago now :-o

But these are the links, which is why I'm not paying for Taxi Point's summary and analysis of it :lol:

pdf:
https://committees.parliament.uk/writte ... 49943/pdf/


HTML:
https://committees.parliament.uk/writte ... 9943/html/


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