Taxi Driver Online

I'm not surprised, you cant hear the words for the knuckles dragging

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

It's not about the CGSA, Stationtone. Dundee Council, are using legislation that no one can “reasonably”, challenge. How many people have the funds to argue against a “reasonable survey” (Wayne Casey,TaxiTalk Magazine), to re-restrict your trade.

Think more along the lines of representing everyone that holds a brief.

Forget about capping, and concentrate on quality controls and the enforcement of regulation.

The council only has to appear reasonable. Therefore, any decision they take is plausible, any wrongdoing, deniable.

You can forget about this truth and justice bollocks. Dundee council is only doing what suites their political agenda. It's got feck all to do with the potential of court action.

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All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.
George Orwell, "Animal Farm"

FFS, there's no need to get nasty and personal.

Tone's outfit is only a bit of fun for the kids' day out.

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Caledonian Cabbie

Of course they "can do it", but they have to consider the consequences, in particular the legal ramifications and the possible implications for the public purse.

Not sure about the law relevant to Cardiff , but the chances are that the council aren't aware of the relevant law and could come unstuck and cost the taxpayers' dear, while on the other hand they might get away with it. After all, such a scenario would hardly be a first in local government.

But here's the irony, Tone. You've went on and on and on about PH illegally plying for hire and how the law should be stringently applied, but when the law doesn't suit you you think Dundee City Council should just ignore it, irrespective of the consequences.

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Caledonian Cabbie

And he says I'm contradictory..............
..........still he's the one in the clown suit

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Gusmac when you gain the knowledge that others have on this forum about the taxi trade i might listen to what you have to say.
As you are clearly out of your depth when it comes to taxi legislation i suggest you stick to the thread A BIT OF FUN

Cardiff is challengeable, what is likely lacking are the funds to do it, and the political nounce to realise the problem.

The problem for Dundee council has to be that they have already been stiffed in court. With Human Rights, and Aberdeen letting the cat out of the bag by telling us that such restriction is anti-competitive and no longer sustainable, it wouldn't take a sophistcated argument for the courts to throw such restriction out.

Section 10 3 clearly discriminates. It sets up a cartel of taxiu ownership denied to a considerable section of interested stakeholders. The discriminatory aspect of this section has never been tested for compliance with the Human Rights Act 1998 which prohibits discrimination.

It should be so no. This is what government is required to do, charged to do, ensure that its laws and processes do NOT discriminate.

It shouldn't require legal action to do this, government should be tripping over itself to rectify the matter.

By seeking to put the cap back on Tone is making a huge error. And its an error that won't resolve Dundee taxi trade's problems. All it would do is ensure these problems remain for ever. No benefit will accrue unless and until demand outstrips supply. With the current state of the economy, this may well not be for a decade.

Only market forces can manage supply levels to match demand. Recognising that the market is poor may well encourage drivers out of the market, even if temporarily. By allowing taxi ownership to be suspend, then owners could reenter without financial penalty when market condition improve.

Tone should be asking the council to consider the mothballing of licences to help bring this about - both taxi and drivers'.

You're barking up the wrong tree Tone. And you're wasting valuable time doing so.

You're actually adding to the problem.

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Skull, "You are a police inspector, aren't you?"
Cab Inspector Smith, "Yes."
Skull, "So, are you going to tell Mr Taylor what his rights are?"
Smith, "And ... What rights?"

I am open to any advice that can help our situation and i will take on board what you have said.
The one thing i do not get is why is stopping issuing licenses to(operators and drivers)any different from capping operators

Tone, you choose to listen to whoever you like.
Most of the people you are listening to have no experience of the CGSA. I've been working under it for 15 years.

Fact. Licence applications must be considered within 3 months and determined within 6 months.

Fact. Any application not determined by the council within 6 months is deemed granted under the act.

The council can apply to the sheriff for an extention in extreme circumstances but waiting for the results of a demand survey is unlikely to be accepted. Each application is supposed to be determined individually and refusals on SUD grounds must be made with information available at the time of application.
If that was no information then there can be no refusal.

If you don't want to hear it, just keep listening to those who say what you do want to hear.
Maybe one of them would like to point out where I am wrong?

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"waiting for the results of a demand survey is unlikely to be accepted."
Do you not think that is up to a sherrif to decide.My piont was it can be done and you have just said it can be done. You then have made assumptions to what a sherriff would decide

Some make assumptions what about what a Judge said.....its par the course up north

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

But councils have to make reasonable assumptions about what a sheriff would decide all the time, or they would never be out of the courts.

If they think there's a good likelihood the sheriff would go against them then they won't go ahead with whatever it is they're considering.

But getting back to the subject matter of the thread, is there still an SNP councillor in Edinburgh with a taxi plate?

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Caledonian Cabbie

Now correct me if i am wrong(be gentile) would an updated survey not be sufficient to satisfy a sheriff. if that is the case, a survey could be done within the 12 month period.
The position that Dundee is in a survey would favor a capping of numbers.

Did you miss this bit?



1 Refusing every application would not be determining each application individually.

2 Waiting for an SUD survey to be completed would be irrelevant, unless the results cover the time of the application. No SUD has been started yet so any current applications and any submitted before one is started would not be covered by it.
It's also not the applicants' fault if the council don't have the information they need to deny an application. It is the council's own fault.

This leaves a Sheriff very little room to grant an extention. I believe that in one of the Edinburgh cases a few years ago an extention on the grounds of SUD information was refused by the Sheriff.
Maybe someone can post the case?
Yes it is for the Sheriff to decide but he has to make a decision based upon the law and legal precident. He can't just make it up as he goes along and any error on his part can be appealed.

The SUD surveys will cost a lot of money. It isn't just one survey, they will have to be repeated on a regular basis and your trade will have to pay for them.
Also, Dundee council are not obliged to hold a survey and they don't have to accept it's findings.

The above are the facts as I understand them. If your more knowledgeable posters wish to dispute them, I'm all ears.

This BTW is my opinion:
A limit now will have no noticeable effect if Dundee already has far to many taxis.
It won't take a single taxi off the road and you will still have far to many taxis.
It won't stop new drivers getting badges. Their numbers cannot be capped.
It won't stop new driver's getting PH cars. Their numbers also cannot be capped.
It won't stop taxis being rented out/double shifted. In fact it's likely to increase.
It will make plate holders reluctant to return their plates when they leave the trade, if they think the plates have any value.
You will end up with a black market in plates. We have that here with saloon plates and we are not restricted.
If we were, we would have one in WAV plates as well.

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I don't doubt that an SUD survey would indicate an oversupply.

Dundee council and the sheriff must act within the law. That means granting a licence within 6 months unless they have up to date evidence of oversupply.
Without the evidence, they would be p*ssing in the wind.
Deny a licence illegally and they would be liable for court costs and could be liable for compensation claims from the refused applicants for loss of earnings etc

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