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Sussex
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:07 pm 
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Tulsablue wrote:
I have never seen in N&P issued by the TC's a reference that fares have to be based on distance travelled.

Whatever the final price is it must be based on the number of folks travelling.

You can't do that on an hourly rate.

IMO the DfT guidance would indicate they are acting not as PSV but as PH.

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grandad
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:28 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Tulsablue wrote:
I have never seen in N&P issued by the TC's a reference that fares have to be based on distance travelled. They do NOT specify what the fare should be or how it is arrived at. For example the operator may want to run a limited stop service with only one boarding and one alighting point.

Say I rang a limo firm and asked for the hire of one for eight people and got quoted £400.

The way I read PSV regs is that the customers must be charged seperately, so that's £50 each.

On the night only six people turn up, so really the bill should only be £300 for the licensing to be legit under PSV rules.


If the cost of the hire is say £400 and there are 8 people booked for the journey and they each pay £50 then that is fine I take it. Now this payment has probably been made in advance so if only 6 people turn up, the 2 that are missing have paid for their fare but have lost their money just like if you don't turn up for your flight.

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captain sensible
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:13 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Tulsablue wrote:
You don't understand the meaning of separate fares, it does not mean you have to charge bus fares.You can base your fares on whatever you want e.g. £100* each (based on 7 sharing, journey time approx 1 hour) no problem and perfectly legal

But the difference in this case is he is charging per hour, so he isn't basing it only any distance, just time.

In other words he is acting as PH by charging per vehicle, not per person.


How does this work then?

How much to hire your Pink PT Cruiser please? Reply... £120.

How many passengers can you carry? Reply... It depends how big they are, we can squeeze 8 kids in but if it's adults we can only get 7 in.

Is this Limo Hire pricing by the size of your ar5e?

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edders23
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:52 pm 
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Hmmmm... how many seat belts fitted for insurance legitimacy it must be one passenger per seatbelt surely so how can you vary the number of passengers carried based on size and not break insurance company rules ?
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grandad
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:15 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
Hmmmm... how many seat belts fitted for insurance legitimacy it must be one passenger per seatbelt surely so how can you vary the number of passengers carried based on size and not break insurance company rules ?


The vehicle may be licensed to carry 8 passengers but if they are a bit on the big size it may be a bit uncomfortable. Remember that you do not need seat belts on side facing or rear facing seats.
Or it may just be that the limo is designed to carry 7 and they will just squeeze an extra kid in and hope they don't get a tug. :wink:

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captain sensible
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:05 pm 
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The vehicle may be licensed to carry 8 passengers but if they are a bit on the big size it may be a bit uncomfortable. Remember that you do not need seat belts on side facing or rear facing seats.
Or it may just be that the limo is designed to carry 7 and they will just squeeze an extra kid in and hope they don't get a tug.


Had a look at this limo, the limo is a six in the back one in the front passenger vehicle.

What the hell!! pile them in eh!

Nlca member, 2 limos, 1 restricted psv licence, park in the street.

Also offers all the bubbly you can drink, website says "drinks for all ages" checked with trading standards, no alcohol licence, the LIMO can be seen cruising around town with people hanging out of the sun roof and windows. Just like a cattle truck!

Moooooooo!!

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Sussex
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:27 pm 
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grandad wrote:
If the cost of the hire is say £400 and there are 8 people booked for the journey and they each pay £50 then that is fine I take it. Now this payment has probably been made in advance so if only 6 people turn up, the 2 that are missing have paid for their fare but have lost their money just like if you don't turn up for your flight.

Not being a member of the limo trade, is pre-payment the norm? :?

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Sussex
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:29 pm 
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grandad wrote:
The vehicle may be licensed to carry 8 passengers but if they are a bit on the big size it may be a bit uncomfortable. Remember that you do not need seat belts on side facing or rear facing seats.

Didn't some court case confirm the minimum space required for each passenger?

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captain sensible
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:39 pm 
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There is a size spec for the seats but it suits some people to ignore them.

What the hell, there is little or no vosa enforcement!

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S6 Conversion specialist.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:50 pm 
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kermit2482
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:51 pm 
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You see guys, this is the trouble, as per usual your picking up on a few bad apples and thinking the whole industry is like this, yet again i point out this is a minority of limo ops just like a minority of bad taxi ops, I dont know why you guys are hell bent on your crusade, but 1 thing i can assure you of is this, i for 1 am getting sick of your crusade!! The majority of limo ops are good guys, the minority are grade A to**ers just like the taxi/ph trade, cant you lot accept that????

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MR T
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:56 pm 
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kermit2482 wrote:
You see guys, this is the trouble, as per usual your picking up on a few bad apples and thinking the whole industry is like this, yet again i point out this is a minority of limo ops just like a minority of bad taxi ops, I dont know why you guys are hell bent on your crusade, but 1 thing i can assure you of is this, i for 1 am getting sick of your crusade!! The majority of limo ops are good guys, the minority are grade A to**ers just like the taxi/ph trade, cant you lot accept that????


I totally agree with you my Little Green friend, there is definitely something to say about people who try to be recognised as legal.

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GA
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:04 pm 
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=D>

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grandad
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:53 am 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
If the cost of the hire is say £400 and there are 8 people booked for the journey and they each pay £50 then that is fine I take it. Now this payment has probably been made in advance so if only 6 people turn up, the 2 that are missing have paid for their fare but have lost their money just like if you don't turn up for your flight.

Not being a member of the limo trade, is pre-payment the norm? :?


Yes

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JD
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:50 am 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
The vehicle may be licensed to carry 8 passengers but if they are a bit on the big size it may be a bit uncomfortable. Remember that you do not need seat belts on side facing or rear facing seats.

Didn't some court case confirm the minimum space required for each passenger?


The case was about whether the seating dimensions in the vehicle were suitable to carry 9 passenger, thus making the vehicle a PSV but the courts found that because of the size of the seats and the way they were arranged it was an 8 seater p/h. It was a minibus type if my memory serves me well?

Regards

JD

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