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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:10 pm 
grandad wrote:
Nigel wrote:

Today will be the big test, I think they will be out in force this afternoon trying to nail drivers but, like Brummie has pointed out they are in very murky waters indeed.


Maybe so but you may have to go to court to prove it and in the meantime they will just suspend your badges with immediate effect on the grounds of public safety so that you can't even work until the appeal.


We will have to wait and see.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:20 am 
A reply from the numpty yesterday. This reply is from a LO who issues a badge to a driver who has served a 12 month ban for motoring offences, yes that's right, a few years ago a Hire Driver was suspended for 12 months for motoring offences, a few days after his ban is finished his Hire Drivers badge is given back to him by the LO after some strings were pulled.

Dear Mr Marchant,

Thank you for your e-mail regarding suspension of Driver licences the
contents of which have been noted.

However any suspension of a Licence would be under Section 61(1) Which
states Notwithstanding anything in the Act of 1847 or in this Part of
this Act, a District Council may suspend or revoke or refuse to renew
the Licence of a Driver of a Hackney Carriage or a Private hire vehicle
on any of the following grounds
(a) that he has since the grant of the licence ;
(i) been convicted of an offence involving dishonesty,
indecency or violance; or
(ii) been convicted of an offence under or has failed to comply
with the provisions
of the Act of 1847 or of this Part of this Act; or
(b) any other reasonable cause.

61(1)(2B) If it appears that the interest of public safty require the
suspension or revocation of the licence to have immediate effect, and
the notice given to the driver under subsection (2)(a) of this section
includes a statement that that is so and an explanation why, the
suspension or revocation takes effect when the notice is given to the
driver.

Any suspension would not be for failing to comply to Terms and
Conditions attached to the Licence but on the grounds of Public Safety
i.e. 61(1)(b) any other reasonable cause and Section 61(1)(2B) the
public safety factor would come into force.

Kevin Neale
Licensing Policy Officer
Ashfield District Council
Urban Road
Kirkby in Ashfield
Nottinghamshire
NG17 8DA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:27 am 
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Location: Scotland
Pt your steel helmets on ready for when Brum posts his reply :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:02 pm 
skippy41 wrote:
Pt your steel helmets on ready for when Brum posts his reply :shock:


I can hear him loading the guns up as I type.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:06 pm 
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Posts: 20130
Nigel wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
Pt your steel helmets on ready for when Brum posts his reply :shock:


I can hear him loading the guns up as I type.


:shock: nice phrase! :shock:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:16 pm 
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Location: grangemouth
guns, I'm expecting nothing less than a howitzer or three :lol:

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I voted Yes, without any fear.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:43 pm 
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Posts: 8119
Location: A Villa in Aston NO MORE!
Nigel wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
Pt your steel helmets on ready for when Brum posts his reply :shock:

I can hear him loading the guns up as I type.

I need some information to reply accurately & am stuggling to get that info, because it's the weekend.

The one person that could give me that info, immediately, off the top of his head, only works Monday to Friday, so it might be on Monday / Tuesday before you get my volume.

At least we no longer have a MR in front of K Neale's name, which is an improvement.

Watch this space; I'll be back!!

_________________
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Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:05 pm 
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Location: A Villa in Aston NO MORE!
Nigel wrote:
A reply from the numpty yesterday. This reply is from a LO who issues a badge to a driver who has served a 12 month ban for motoring offences, yes that's right, a few years ago a Hire Driver was suspended for 12 months for motoring offences, a few days after his ban is finished his Hire Drivers badge is given back to him by the LO after some strings were pulled.

Dear Mr Marchant,

Thank you for your e-mail regarding suspension of Driver licences the contents of which have been noted.

However any suspension of a Licence would be under Section 61(1) which states Notwithstanding anything in the Act of 1847 or in this Part of this Act, a District Council may suspend or revoke or refuse to renew the Licence of a Driver of a Hackney Carriage or a Private hire vehicle on any of the following grounds
(a) that he has since the grant of the licence;
(i) been convicted of an offence involving dishonesty, indecency or violance; or
(ii) been convicted of an offence under or has failed to comply with the provisions of the Act of 1847 or of this Part of this Act; or
(b) any other reasonable cause.

61(1)(2B) If it appears that the interest of public safty require the suspension or revocation of the licence to have immediate effect, and the notice given to the driver under subsection (2)(a) of this section includes a statement that that is so and an explanation why, the suspension or revocation takes effect when the notice is given to the driver.

Any suspension would not be for failing to comply to Terms and Conditions attached to the Licence but on the grounds of Public Safety i.e. 61(1)(b) any other reasonable cause and Section 61(1)(2B) the public safety factor would come into force.

Kevin Neale
Licensing Policy Officer
Ashfield District Council
Urban Road
Kirkby in Ashfield
Nottinghamshire
NG17 8DA

Firstly, I think Kevin Neale, Licensing Policy Officer, is logging on to TDO & reading this thread, because he is now titling himself & has signed this letter Kevin Neale as he should have done on the previous letter, instead of the presumptive Mr K Neale version he used then.

That apart, welcome to TDO Kevin; you see it is for other people to title you Mr & not for yourself to do so.

You appear to quote section 61(1)(2B) of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act [LG(MP)A1976] 1976 as follows;

61(1)(2B) If it appears that the interest of public safty (I think you mean safety) require the suspension or revocation of the licence to have immediate effect, and the notice given to the driver under subsection (2)(a) of this section includes a statement that that is so and an explanation why, the suspension or revocation takes effect when the notice is given to the driver.

This is quite confusing & I wonder if this section of your letter is indeed intended to confuse & misinform the recipient or recipients.

Section 61 of the LG(MP)A 1976 in its entirety reads;

61 Suspension and revocation of drivers' licences

(1) Notwithstanding anything in the Act of 1847 or in this Part of this Act, a district council may suspend or revoke or (on application therefor under section 46 of the Act of 1847 or section 51 of this Act, as the case may be) refuse to renew the licence of a driver of a hackney carriage or a private hire vehicle on any of the following grounds—
(a) that he has since the grant of the licence—
(i) been convicted of an offence involving dishonesty, indecency or violence; or
(ii) been convicted of an offence under or has failed to comply with the provisions of the Act of 1847 or of this Part of this Act; or
(b) any other reasonable cause.

(2) (a) Where a district council suspend, revoke or refuse to renew any licence under this section they shall give to the driver notice of the grounds on which the licence has been suspended or revoked or on which they have refused to renew such licence within fourteen days of such suspension, revocation or refusal and the driver shall on demand return to the district council the driver's badge issued to him in accordance with section 54 of this Act.

(b) If any person without reasonable excuse contravenes the provisions of this section he shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [level 1 on the standard scale].

(3) Any driver aggrieved by a decision of a district council under this section may appeal to a magistrates' court.

Amendment
Sub-s (2): maximum fine increased and converted to a level on the standard scale by
virtue of the Criminal Justice Act 1982, ss 37, 38,46
.

Therefore your quoted section 61(1)(2B) of the LG(MP)A 1976 does not correspond with what is written in that section of the Act.

The mis-quoting of Section 61 of the LG(MP)A 1976 is not appreciated & I believe it to be deliberate.

I am however aware, that there was a recent addition to an Act of Parliament, approximately two to four years ago, which did allow for the immediate suspension of a Hackney Carriage Driver Licence.

The spirit of the amendment which was contained in The Road Safety Act 2006 (RSA 2006) was that such suspensions were only to be used for very serious offences. The type of offence that this amendment was targeted at was for persons accused of rape, murder, manslaughter, robbery, violence & the like, where the continued licensing of such a person as a Hackney Carriage or Private Hire Driver would genuinely be seen as a danger to public safety. A taxi driver over-ranking would not be seen as being in that category by the courts.

However, I am aware that should you deliberately & erroneously suspend any Hackney Carriage Driver Licences using the provisions set out in RSA 2006, an appeal to the Magistrates’ Court would not be possible, as the RSA 2006 specifically excludes appeals where a Hackney Carriage or Private Hire Driver Licence is suspended using the provisions under the RSA 2006.

Indeed the relevant section of the RSA 2006 reads;

Hackney carriages and private hire vehicles
52 Immediate suspension and revocation of drivers' licences
(1) Part 2 of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 (c. 57) (hackney carriages and private hire vehicles in England and Wales outside London) is amended as follows.
(2) In section 61 (suspension and revocation of drivers' licences), after subsection (2) insert—
“(2A) Subject to subsection (2B) of this section, a suspension or revocation of the licence of a driver under this section takes effect at the end of the period of 21 days beginning with the day on which notice is given to the driver under subsection (2)(a) of this section.
(2B) If it appears that the interests of public safety require the suspension or revocation of the licence to have immediate effect, and the notice given to the driver under subsection (2)(a) of this section includes a statement that that is so and an explanation why, the suspension or revocation takes effect when the notice is given to the driver.”
(3) In subsection (3) of that section, after “under” insert “subsection (1) of”.
(4) In section 77 (appeals), after subsection (2) insert—
“(3) Subsection (2) of this section does not apply in relation to a decision under subsection (1) of section 61 of this Act which has immediate effect in accordance with subsection (2B) of that section.”

General guidance on this section should have been forwarded to you from The Minister & in any event your department should have a written policy document, which has been duly adopted by the Licensing Committee, setting out for which offences suspension of Driver Licence would be sought under the RSA 2006.

As an appeal to a Magistrates’ Court would not be possible should suspension of licence occur under Section 52 of RSA 2006 it is probable that any aggrieved driver or drivers would need to go to Judicial Review to overturn such a bullying suspension. It is envisaged that the driver or drivers would be successful & probably leave the council with a legal bill of some size.

I would therefore urge you to take note of Section 63(1) of the LG(MP)A 1976 instead, which reads;

63 Stands for hackney carriages
(1) For the purposes of their functions under the Act of 1847, a district council may from time to time appoint stands for hackney carriages for the whole or any part of a day in any highway in the district which is maintainable at the public expense and, with the consent of the owner, on any land in the district which does not form part of a highway so maintainable and may from time to time vary the number of hackney carriages permitted to be at each stand.

I would also strongly urge you to set in motion the implementation of Hackney Carriage Bye-laws, so that Hackney Carriage Drivers can be properly & lawfully regulated in your Licensing Authority Area. The Department for Transport, (Bus & Taxi Division) will gladly be of assistance to you. The contact there is a gentleman named Paul Lowry.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:49 pm 
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Location: 1066 Country
Maybe the licensing officer is trying to shift the blame for his council's woeful level of ranking space.

Gutless LOs will always find a way to not do their jobs properly. [-X

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:25 am 
I hope he does come onto hear then he'll realise what a tool he's been.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:11 pm
Posts: 8119
Location: A Villa in Aston NO MORE!
Nigel wrote:
I hope he does come onto hear then he'll realise what a tool he's been.

On the recent 'Hits' thread on this Forum under the TDO Admin section, I was amazed that this Forum has several million hits a month.

That tells you that there are loads coming on here to view, but not participate & I'll put money on that Mr Neale has been on here reading the contributions.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.


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