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clampdown on hold as on-the-spot fines are withdrawn
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Author:  captain cab [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  clampdown on hold as on-the-spot fines are withdrawn
Cannabis clampdown on hold as on-the-spot fines are withdrawn

GOVERNMENT plans for a clampdown on cannabis users were in disarray today after the withdrawal of sweeping new powers for on-the-spot fines.

Under a scheme that was due to be introduced next Monday, when cannabis is upgraded to a class B drug, people caught with the substance for a second time were meant to be facing instant £80 penalty notices.

The fines were intended to be one of the key parts of a three-strikes-and-you're-out penalty system that ministers hoped would curb the use of the drug amid growing fears about its impact on users' health.

In an embarrassing hitch, however, the fines have now been put on hold after the Ministry of Justice decided to withdraw a Parliamentary order that would have given police the power to issue penalty notices for 21 offences, including possession of cannabis.

The retreat follows a decision to abandon the introduction of £80 on-the-spot fines for bogus mini-cab drivers - the powers for which were also contained on the same Parliamentary order - and to reconsider whether instant penalties should be used for 19 other offences.

These include a wide range of crimes, including the sale of cigarettes to under 18s, making off without payment and the sale of alcohol to the intoxicated.

Although ministers insist that they remain determined to introduce the cannabis fines and will return to Parliament rapidly to seek the necessary authorisation, a lack of time means that the penalties are unlikely to be in place in time for next Monday's regrading of cannabis.

That will raise fears that the police, who are meant to be enforcing the drug's tougher classification, will not be able to begin their new approach - and their more robust message will be lost.

Meanwhile, campaigners were celebrating the Government's decision to abandon on-the-spot fines for mini-cab "touting" - claiming it would water down punishment for the offence.

Eight cab-related sex offences are recorded in London each month, and the Government's plan had been opposed by Transport for London, the London Private Hire Car Association and the Suzy Lamplugh Trust, set up in the name of the 25-year-old estate agent who was last seen getting into a car in Fulham in July 1986.

A spokesman for the trust said: "We are absolutely delighted because these fines would have been utterly inappropriate and absolutely ridiculous. An £80 fixed penalty would not be a deterrent at all. These moves would have meant that potentially dangerous and illegal cab touts would have been treated no more severely than a motorist committing a parking offence."

London's cab enforcement team made 4,500 arrests for touting in the past five years and dealt with 2,000 offences with summonses. Most cases went to magistrates' courts, where offenders were fined £135 each.

There are 54,000 licensed private hire drivers in the capital but there are thousands of bogus cab drivers and tens of thousands across Britain.
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: clampdown on hold as on-the-spot fines are withdrawn
captain cab wrote:
The retreat follows a decision to abandon the introduction of £80 on-the-spot fines for bogus mini-cab drivers - the powers for which were also contained on the same Parliamentary order - and to reconsider whether instant penalties should be used for 19 other offences.

So we have all been 'hot under the collar' for no good reason. :?

See I'm not sure that fixed penalty notices are popular with anyone other than the police. I know the courts don't like them, and lawyers don't like them.

But the police love the power it gives them. :shock:
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: clampdown on hold as on-the-spot fines are withdrawn
captain cab wrote:
Meanwhile, campaigners were celebrating the Government's decision to abandon on-the-spot fines for mini-cab "touting" - claiming it would water down punishment for the offence.

Eight cab-related sex offences are recorded in London each month, and the Government's plan had been opposed by Transport for London, the London Private Hire Car Association and the Suzy Lamplugh Trust, set up in the name of the 25-year-old estate agent who was last seen getting into a car in Fulham in July 1986.

A spokesman for the trust said: "We are absolutely delighted because these fines would have been utterly inappropriate and absolutely ridiculous. An £80 fixed penalty would not be a deterrent at all. These moves would have meant that potentially dangerous and illegal cab touts would have been treated no more severely than a motorist committing a parking offence."

London's cab enforcement team made 4,500 arrests for touting in the past five years and dealt with 2,000 offences with summonses. Most cases went to magistrates' courts, where offenders were fined £135 each.

There are 54,000 licensed private hire drivers in the capital but there are thousands of bogus cab drivers and tens of thousands across Britain.

So the £80 fixed penalty wont be a deterrent, but a £135 fine will? ](*,)

When will folks realise it's either a DVLA ban or a PCO ban that will do the job.

If the fixed penalty system was in place 1000s more touts would lose their licenses. WTF can't are so-called leaders work that out?
Author:  GBC [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: clampdown on hold as on-the-spot fines are withdrawn
Sussex wrote:
See I'm not sure that fixed penalty notices are popular with anyone other than the police. I know the courts don't like them, and lawyers don't like them.

But the police love the power it gives them. :shock:




The Police have a far better power than a 'parking' ticket, they arrest you and deprive you of your liberty by locking the cell door.

The FPN was an easy way out for both the courts and the Police, one quick ticket and no work for the courts unless the person refuses to pay.

I would argue the courts love them, as the learned stipe’s get away back to their country homes by 3pm at the latest.

The lawyers will hate them as its less people who will need to be represented in the dock, and less of our tax money they can have away.
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
And now onto fixed penalty notices for non-payment, or in this case a non non-payment. :sad:

99.9% of the time when you get runners, and the police manage to catch up with the runners, all a driver will get is his fare and maybe a bit extra for his time. Rarely is there a conviction.

The reasons are crystal clear, too much paperwork for the police, and loads of working time lost by the driver in court. A fixed penalty notice will allow police to issue 1000s to the scum runners, and the vast majority will be paid and a black mark registered against the scum.

Now we have the worst of both worlds. :sad:
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: clampdown on hold as on-the-spot fines are withdrawn
GBC wrote:
I would argue the courts love them,

Oh no. [-X

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7838928.stm
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: clampdown on hold as on-the-spot fines are withdrawn
GBC wrote:
The Police have a far better power than a 'parking' ticket, they arrest you and deprive you of your liberty by locking the cell door.

The FPN was an easy way out for both the courts and the Police, one quick ticket and no work for the courts unless the person refuses to pay.

The police have massive powers, but only for a night or a day. Then the folks are back on the streets.

The fixed penalty notice would have led to 1000s more touts losing their licenses, if Boris kept to his word. :?
Author:  JD [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Sussex is bang on the button, all that time wasted in court and the cost to boot. No wonder 2,500 were let off over five years. The reason being not enough evidence.

I'm afraid a Golden opportunity has been lost here but wouldn't it be nice if the law allowed a fixed penalty system just for the provinces?

Regards

JD
Author:  GBC [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: clampdown on hold as on-the-spot fines are withdrawn
Sussex wrote:
GBC wrote:
I would argue the courts love them,

Oh no. [-X

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7838928.stm


However, the plans to extend penalty notices for disorder have been heavily criticised by the Magistrates Association, which said some of the offences were too serious to be dealt with out of court and that payment rates were low.

That will be in keeping with the fines that London Mags hand out on a daily basis then? :roll:
Author:  Sussex [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: clampdown on hold as on-the-spot fines are withdrawn
GBC wrote:
That will be in keeping with the fines that London Mags hand out on a daily basis then? :roll:

Don't blame them, blame the politicians that lay down weak and pointless guidelines. :-k
Author:  MR T [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Maybe magistrates should have a meeting the minds :wink:
Author:  GBC [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
MR T wrote:
Maybe magistrates should have a meeting the minds :wink:


It would be better if they had a mind in the first place! :-s

There's a Taxi driver who eats at the St Johns Wood Taxi shelter, he's as bright as a 10w bulb, but serves as a lay magistrate out in Herts.
Author:  captain cab [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
GBC wrote:

There's a Taxi driver who eats at the St Johns Wood Taxi shelter, he's as bright as a 10w bulb, but serves as a lay magistrate out in Herts.


The government are phasing out them bulbs.....not eco freindly :lol:

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