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PRIVATE LAND AGAIN
http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10556		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Stationtone [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  PRIVATE LAND AGAIN
I know this is old rope But we are having problems convincing our council that a private yard across from a night club that is being used by a private hire company is illegal.They say that the private hire company has a contract to take home its customers home.This yard is 20 yards from two night clubs.I have already gathered information from past blogs they have been very helpful i have also sent the council documents(eastbourne case,Blackpool airport case and also report on Manchester's print works) if anyone has any more information i would be most grateful :?:
Author:  captain cab [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
How are the vehicles being hired?

CC
Author:  Stationtone [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
The customers come out of night club and into yard and because the night club has a contract with phc the council say this is legal
Author:  captain cab [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
stationtone wrote:
The customers come out of night club and into yard and because the night club has a contract with phc the council say this is legal


I dont know about scottish law.

But in England the driver would need to be pre-booked, that is to say, he would need to know the name of the passenger and arguably where they were going.

I dont think your going to get much movement in touting laws, it might be possible to persuade your local authority that the Yard is a Street because it has public access.

The following link gives a similar tale if you go to the third page you will see that MrT has given a definition of a street, it may be useful, as are the comments by JD.

Link!

The fact it is private land doesnt mean much in my view, the fact is people are walking straight into a PHV without pre-booking and getting an on demand service......which is illegal.

Have you contacted trading standards?

CC
Author:  Stationtone [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, this is where it is different than in England. The Trading Standards are not responsible for public transport. I have also a report from a Edinburgh Council lawyer that states that although the previously mentioned cases are English, a Scottish Judge would look at them in a positive way. We are banging our heads against a brick wall.
Author:  captain cab [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
stationtone wrote:
Yes, this is where it is different than in England. The Trading Standards are not responsible for public transport. I have also a report from a Edinburgh Council lawyer that states that although the previously mentioned cases are English, a Scottish Judge would look at them in a positive way. We are banging our heads against a brick wall.


The cases would be of a persuasive value I suspect, although JD or Sussex are probably the guy's who can answer more thoroughly than myself.

It strikes me as strange this, if you break a law, normally the fact the law was broken on private land isn't an issue.

The issue of the contract isn't in my view an argument, its a fact of the vehicles being visible to the public, and more pertinent the drivers are taking fares that haven't pre booked.

They could get around this, like at watford station in England, where the passenger goes to a booking office, collects a ticket and then goes to the first PHV that has been told about the booking.

It may be a case where you will shout your loudest, only to find they change their practice to make it legal.

Is the exit from the land quite large? If not I wonder if your self and your colleagues could manage to break down outside......it has happened in other places....vehicles so damn unreliable :wink:

CC
Author:  Sussex [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
stationtone wrote:
I have also a report from a Edinburgh Council lawyer that states that although the previously mentioned cases are English, a Scottish Judge would look at them in a positive way. We are banging our heads against a brick wall.

A Scottish judge or whatever you call them would look at English cases, and give them a lot of consideration. If for no other reason than he would have to say why the points raised don't apply in Scotland.

As for your situation I think the private land issue is a bit of a red herring. From what I see no formal bookings are taking place. There are no records or bookings prior to the customer getting into the vehicle.

Dundee Council says on it's website;

Taxis can pick up passengers in the street whilst Private Hire Cards must be prebooked.

What checks have the council taken to ascertain the vehicles have been pre-booked? :?
Author:  Stationtone [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
They have not got any prove of an agreement and are reliying on heresay.we have asked to see contract and they told us to ask phc for a copy
Author:  Stationtone [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
One of my colleges entered yard and got in phc ask driver to take him home once home refused to pay.he told driver what he did was illegal he has since been charge with taxi fraud .Also police carried out test purchase and found drivers picking up illegally instead of charging them they have been reported to council,who will give them a slap on the wrist
Author:  captain cab [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
stationtone wrote:
One of my colleges entered yard and got in phc ask driver to take him home once home refused to pay.he told driver what he did was illegal he has since been charge with taxi fraud .Also police carried out test purchase and found drivers picking up illegally instead of charging them they have been reported to council,who will give them a slap on the wrist


Have they been in front of the LA yet?

CC
Author:  Stationtone [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
We cannot understand why the phc drivers were not charge that is another thing the dundee taxi trade is tackling at the moment
Author:  Stationtone [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
As you probaly know this is so frustrating
Author:  Sussex [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
stationtone wrote:
They have not got any prove of an agreement and are reliying on heresay.we have asked to see contract and they told us to ask phc for a copy

Not sure a contract matters.

Each separate hiring is, IMO, a separate contract and separate customer details need to apply. If the club was paying each and every customer fare then maybe it would be different, but the contract that matters is the contract between the buyer (punter) and the seller (driver, operator).

Any contract between the club and the operator matters not, IMO.
Author:  Stationtone [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes just what we have been saying
Author:  Stationtone [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
there was also private investigation paid for by the trade they also found phc to be picking up illegally is this becoming common practice.
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