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If you have a license then that license is only valid until it runs out. Once it runs out you no longer have a license in the same way a new entrant to the trade doesn't have a license. Therefore he must be treated the same.

He has no-one else to blame but himself.

Sussex wrote:

Have to agree.

My insurance expires later this month. Would "I forgot" be a reasonable excuse for having no insurance?

I'm not too sure I agree, if your insurance expires you wouldn't need to again prove you're experience.

What happens if someone dies or is ill or has a cab written off? Is that a case of tough sh!t too?

captain cab wrote:

I'm not too sure I agree, if your insurance expires you wouldn't need to again prove you're experience.

No you would just need to prove your income to a bench of JPs.

captain cab wrote:

What happens if someone dies or is ill or has a cab written off? Is that a case of tough sh!t too?

Exceptional circumstances will always apply. In this instance the mush just forgot.

captain cab wrote:

I'm not too sure I agree, if your insurance expires you wouldn't need to again prove you're experience.

No you would just need to prove your income to a bench of JPs.

captain cab wrote:

What happens if someone dies or is ill or has a cab written off? Is that a case of tough sh!t too?

Exceptional circumstances will always apply. In this instance the mush just forgot.

I take it this council does not have an appeals process in place.
Could he appeal to a magistrate that the council licencing policy is to rigorous :?:

PCO Notice 28/09

Transport for London
Public Carriage Office

Taxi and Private Hire Vehicle drivers' licences: Late renewal applications
The PCO receives many applications to renew taxi and PHV driver licences that are submitted by drivers after the expiry of their existing licence.
Once a driver's licence has expired he or she is longer licensed, their hire and reward insurance will be invalid and they will not be able to work as a taxi or PHV driver. All drivers are therefore urged to submit their renewal (re-licensing) applications in good time.
In the event of a driver submitting an application for the renewal of a licence after the expiry of the previous licence the immediate issue of a new licence will be at the discretion of the PCO. However, it is possible that the driver may have to wait until all processes, including the return of a satisfactory CRB Disclosure, have been completed before a licence can be issued.
Any driver applying to renew his or her licence more than three months after the expiry of the preceding licence will be treated as a new applicant. Any benefit of being continuously licensed will be lost and the driver will have to wait until all necessary checks have been completed before a licence can be issued.
If a taxi driver has been unlicensed for a significant length of time he or she may also be required to undergo a Knowledge of London re-test to ensure that their Knowledge remains up to date.
The PCO licensing teams will send a re-licensing application pack to a driver's home address 8 weeks before their licence is due to expire. This will contain all the forms and information a driver needs to be licensed for a further three years. To allow time for it to be processed, it is imperative that a driver submits his or her application at least 21 days before their existing licence expires. To ensure that they receive their re-licensing pack, drivers are reminded of their responsibility to notify the PCO in writing of any change of address during the period of the licence. Any driver who has not received their re-licensing pack 28 days in advance of the expiry of their licence should contact the PCO as a matter of urgency.
If there is reason why a driver will not be able to submit their re-licensing application on time (e.g. because of illness, extended holiday, etc.) they should advise the PCO at the earliest opportunity.

25 August 2009
For previous PCO Notices visit tfl.gov/uk/pco

Mary Dowdye
Head of Standards & Regulations

MAYOR OF LONDON

Author:	MR T [ Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:	400 pound Bill
A FURIOUS taxi-driver says he is struggling to pay his rent after the local council refused to let him renew his licence on the next working day after it expired. Steve Murray, 52, from Tawstock, said he will have to pay more than £400 before he can get back behind the wheel for Devon Taxis — and he expects to be out of work until after Christmas. His taxi licence expired at midnight on Friday, October 23. He should have paid his £40 licence fee before the deadline — North Devon Council even sent him a reminder letter — and he admits he made a mistake. He realised his error on the evening his licence ran out and he went to the Civic Centre first thing on Monday morning, the next day the office was open, to pay up. But the council refused to renew his licence and told him he would have to go through a rigorous reapplication process. He will have to pay £202 for a new BTEC qualification, £80 for Driving Standards Agency test, £37 for a Criminal Records Bureau Check (even though he already has an in-date CRB check), £57.50 for a new taxi licence, and £50 for a badge deposit — a grand total of £426.50. Now he is in a Catch-22 situation: unable to pay to reapply, unable to earn until he has reapplied. He said: “I just think it’s an injustice. There has got to be a cut-off point but I felt in my case it was a grey area.” Katy Nicholls, the council’s licensing manager said: “We cannot legally renew a hackney carriage or private hire licence that has expired. “All holders of these licences were made aware of the consequences of failing to renew on time in a letter sent by the council in January. “Licence holders who fail to make their renewal application on time will be treated as a grant application, which now means taking and passing two tests. “This change was introduced to improve taxi and private hire driver standards. “The council has also reminded licence holders of the importance of applying on time in the November edition of its trade newsletter. We hope this will act as a further reminder to drivers and we will avoid further situations where drivers may lose out on business because of their failure to apply on time.” In October, David Pert, 41, from Yelland, said he and his family had been left facing homelessness because the council would not bend the rule. Mr Pert forgot to pay in time and his licence expired. He asked the council to take into account his personal circumstances: he has two disabled children who need transport in the vehicle he is unable to use because he has run out of money. He is still out of work and waiting to take the necessary tests.

Author:	Sussex [ Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:
If you have a license then that license is only valid until it runs out. Once it runs out you no longer have a license in the same way a new entrant to the trade doesn't have a license. Therefore he must be treated the same. He has no-one else to blame but himself.

Author:	jimbo [ Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:
Sussex wrote: If you have a license then that license is only valid until it runs out. Once it runs out you no longer have a license in the same way a new entrant to the trade doesn't have a license. Therefore he must be treated the same. He has no-one else to blame but himself. Have to agree. My insurance expires later this month. Would "I forgot" be a reasonable excuse for having no insurance?

Author:	captain cab [ Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:
jimbo wrote: Sussex wrote: If you have a license then that license is only valid until it runs out. Once it runs out you no longer have a license in the same way a new entrant to the trade doesn't have a license. Therefore he must be treated the same. He has no-one else to blame but himself. Have to agree. My insurance expires later this month. Would "I forgot" be a reasonable excuse for having no insurance? I'm not too sure I agree, if your insurance expires you wouldn't need to again prove you're experience. What happens if someone dies or is ill or has a cab written off? Is that a case of tough sh!t too? CC

Author:	MR T [ Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:
PCO Notice 28/09 Transport for London Public Carriage Office Taxi and Private Hire Vehicle drivers' licences: Late renewal applications The PCO receives many applications to renew taxi and PHV driver licences that are submitted by drivers after the expiry of their existing licence. Once a driver's licence has expired he or she is longer licensed, their hire and reward insurance will be invalid and they will not be able to work as a taxi or PHV driver. All drivers are therefore urged to submit their renewal (re-licensing) applications in good time. In the event of a driver submitting an application for the renewal of a licence after the expiry of the previous licence the immediate issue of a new licence will be at the discretion of the PCO. However, it is possible that the driver may have to wait until all processes, including the return of a satisfactory CRB Disclosure, have been completed before a licence can be issued. Any driver applying to renew his or her licence more than three months after the expiry of the preceding licence will be treated as a new applicant. Any benefit of being continuously licensed will be lost and the driver will have to wait until all necessary checks have been completed before a licence can be issued. If a taxi driver has been unlicensed for a significant length of time he or she may also be required to undergo a Knowledge of London re-test to ensure that their Knowledge remains up to date. The PCO licensing teams will send a re-licensing application pack to a driver's home address 8 weeks before their licence is due to expire. This will contain all the forms and information a driver needs to be licensed for a further three years. To allow time for it to be processed, it is imperative that a driver submits his or her application at least 21 days before their existing licence expires. To ensure that they receive their re-licensing pack, drivers are reminded of their responsibility to notify the PCO in writing of any change of address during the period of the licence. Any driver who has not received their re-licensing pack 28 days in advance of the expiry of their licence should contact the PCO as a matter of urgency. If there is reason why a driver will not be able to submit their re-licensing application on time (e.g. because of illness, extended holiday, etc.) they should advise the PCO at the earliest opportunity. 25 August 2009 For previous PCO Notices visit tfl.gov/uk/pco Mary Dowdye Head of Standards & Regulations MAYOR OF LONDON

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400 pound Bill http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12992	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Sussex [ Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:
captain cab wrote: I'm not too sure I agree, if your insurance expires you wouldn't need to again prove you're experience. No you would just need to prove your income to a bench of JPs. captain cab wrote: What happens if someone dies or is ill or has a cab written off? Is that a case of tough sh!t too? Exceptional circumstances will always apply. In this instance the mush just forgot.

Author:	MR T [ Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:
I agree with the captain.... and don't forget councils do have a discretion....

Author:	MR T [ Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:
Sussex wrote: captain cab wrote: I'm not too sure I agree, if your insurance expires you wouldn't need to again prove you're experience. No you would just need to prove your income to a bench of JPs. captain cab wrote: What happens if someone dies or is ill or has a cab written off? Is that a case of tough sh!t too? Exceptional circumstances will always apply. In this instance the mush just forgot. Any money.... the licensing officer is a member of IOL.. Become a licensing officer.... and join the Fourth Reich.....

Author:	captain cab [ Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:
Sussex wrote: captain cab wrote: I'm not too sure I agree, if your insurance expires you wouldn't need to again prove you're experience. No you would just need to prove your income to a bench of JPs. captain cab wrote: What happens if someone dies or is ill or has a cab written off? Is that a case of tough sh!t too? Exceptional circumstances will always apply. In this instance the mush just forgot. I didn't mean the non insured person would carry on driving nor would an unlicensed person carry on cabbing. If a persons license lapses....I dont know, maybe the CRB are particularly slow, or maybe a logbook or V5 cannot be found......is that a reason why a person to carry on should have to obtain a 'new' license with all the conditions that entails.....maybe a newer vehicle etc? CC

Author:	skippy41 [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:
I take it this council does not have an appeals process in place. Could he appeal to a magistrate that the council licencing policy is to rigorous

Author:	captain cab [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:
skippy41 wrote: I take it this council does not have an appeals process in place. Could he appeal to a magistrate that the council licencing policy is to rigorous Skippy, I dont know if you noticed but more and more local authorities have given licensing Officers delegated powers, some licensing committees basically only meet once every 6 months, and by that time a person could be bankrupt. CC

Author:	grumpy [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:
we get over a months notice that our renewal is due (driver and plate on same date). Then the (Falkirk) council ask that we apply and pay 20 days prior to the expiry date. We still hear of drivers "forgetting" to pay. Mainly it's the ones who tried to play the system by renewing on the last day. We also lose our licence with immediate effect. The only difference being you can get a PHV licence and plate with little delay. If, however you want to remain as a licensed taxi driver with a general plate, you need to put on a WAV. A costly game of brinkmanship that I have no desire to join. BTW no appeal process in place.

Author:	GBC [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:
MR T wrote: PCO Notice 28/09 Transport for London Public Carriage Office Taxi and Private Hire Vehicle drivers' licences: Late renewal applications The PCO receives many applications to renew taxi and PHV driver licences that are submitted by drivers after the expiry of their existing licence. Once a driver's licence has expired he or she is longer licensed, their hire and reward insurance will be invalid and they will not be able to work as a taxi or PHV driver. All drivers are therefore urged to submit their renewal (re-licensing) applications in good time. In the event of a driver submitting an application for the renewal of a licence after the expiry of the previous licence the immediate issue of a new licence will be at the discretion of the PCO. However, it is possible that the driver may have to wait until all processes, including the return of a satisfactory CRB Disclosure, have been completed before a licence can be issued. Any driver applying to renew his or her licence more than three months after the expiry of the preceding licence will be treated as a new applicant. Any benefit of being continuously licensed will be lost and the driver will have to wait until all necessary checks have been completed before a licence can be issued. If a taxi driver has been unlicensed for a significant length of time he or she may also be required to undergo a Knowledge of London re-test to ensure that their Knowledge remains up to date. The PCO licensing teams will send a re-licensing application pack to a driver's home address 8 weeks before their licence is due to expire. This will contain all the forms and information a driver needs to be licensed for a further three years. To allow time for it to be processed, it is imperative that a driver submits his or her application at least 21 days before their existing licence expires. To ensure that they receive their re-licensing pack, drivers are reminded of their responsibility to notify the PCO in writing of any change of address during the period of the licence. Any driver who has not received their re-licensing pack 28 days in advance of the expiry of their licence should contact the PCO as a matter of urgency. If there is reason why a driver will not be able to submit their re-licensing application on time (e.g. because of illness, extended holiday, etc.) they should advise the PCO at the earliest opportunity. 25 August 2009 For previous PCO Notices visit tfl.gov/uk/pco Mary Dowdye Head of Standards & Regulations MAYOR OF LONDON Strange that you posted this Trevor, as I'm calling them about this very subject tomorrow. My license expired back in October, and I'm still operating on a 'temporary' license. This is now due to expire. FFS, how long does it take them to issue a license.

Author:	MR T [ Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:27 am ]
Post subject:
When you renew your licence it is being claimed that it is a continuation of licence............ but the very word renew suggests it is a new licence.... it is not a carbon-copy of the old one ... the date will be different for a start..... if they refuse to relicence you're vehicle.... you have.... the right to appeal at a magistrates' court.... By claiming that your licence does no longer exist and that you are applying for a new licence... they do not have to advise you of your right of appeal... in fact they are stealing your right.... you then have to go to county court .... which will cost you many thousands of pounds .. the word that it is unlawful is appearing.... but as far as I know there is no law for it to be unlawful ...

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Author:	cabbyman [ Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:46 am ]
Post subject:
I really fail to understand the propensity of some idiots to risk their ability to earn a living just to get one over on the council. You need a licence, you need to pay for it, you know at least a year in advance when it all needs doing. Wher's the big problem, FFS? (Exceptional circumstances excluded)