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City Cabs, and the Great Black Market Taxi Plate Scam.
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Author:  Skull [ Mon May 31, 2010 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  City Cabs, and the Great Black Market Taxi Plate Scam.
So, the City Cab brotherhood is looking forward to benefiting from the sale of PUBLIC PROPERTY on the BLACK MARKET.

I only hope they inform their prospective clients (mugs) that, public property is not for sale or transfer and has no intrinsic value. The de facto transfer of a license plate, is not, in fact, a legal transfer. The client, for the most part, is paying to gain unfettered access to the tools of his trade, due to under supply.

Access to a licence plate is a qualified driver's right. Not a favour of the council, or something to be purchased from a vested interest group.


The Truth Will Set You Free. :D
Author:  LongshanksED [ Mon May 31, 2010 9:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Fuxk me you are getting boring now

if the transfer of plates was illegal the council wouldve stepped in years ago to put a halt to these matters

the transfer of license is legal, similar to the transfer of license with public houses, nightlife security staff, window washers, greasy spoons and hot dog stands
Author:  Skull [ Mon May 31, 2010 9:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
LongshanksED wrote:
Fuxk me you are getting boring now

if the transfer of plates was illegal the council wouldve stepped in years ago to put a halt to these matters

the transfer of license is legal, similar to the transfer of license with public houses, nightlife security staff, window washers, greasy spoons and hot dog stands


Wrong again LongshanksED, there is no legal transfer of a taxi plate or licence. Only the issue of a new licence.

No cap.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :D De-restriction!
Author:  Jasbar [ Mon May 31, 2010 9:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
And when you issie a New? licence to a new incorporated entity, replacing a single licence, that is an illegal transfer of licence.

New incorporations may survive, but those who transferred into an incorporation are certainly illegal.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  Frank Lay [ Mon May 31, 2010 11:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
I,m afraid the terrible two are correct on this one.

A licence issued initially to a company is fine, but one that has been issued to an individual and transferred later to a company is not.

It may be that the council have turned a blind eye to this so far, but there is no guarantee that they will do in the future.

A licence that has been transferred in that way offers little protection if the council decide to have a closer look or even change the rules.

Compared to licence still held in the name that it was initially issued, these transferred plates could be modified or revoked at any time.
The holder would have little protection in court if it came to that, because they have broken the rules by transferring the plate.

In effect there is a first class licence and a second class(unprotected) licence.
Author:  Frank Lay [ Mon May 31, 2010 11:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
"because they have broken the rules by transferring the plate."

By "they" I mean the licence holder.
Author:  Skull [ Mon May 31, 2010 11:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Frank Lay wrote:
"because they have broken the rules by transferring the plate."

By "they" I mean the licence holder.



"they" the public, only do what the council allows?

We've said it all along, the council has fecked it up since day 1. :D
Author:  swannee [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Once again nothing but misinformation from skull and jawbone. It's like dealing with children.

No licence has ever been transferred as EVERYBODY else knows.

If a licence has been issued to an individual he can surrender that licence and have a new licence issued to a company.

The wording from the guidance note (to the legal requirement) is...

"In practical terms, applications seeking to replace the name of an individual as licence holder with the name of a non natural person, i.e. a company or partnership, will require to be accompanied by a legally binding partnership document or evidence of incorporation to the satisfaction of the Council Solicitor, whose decision on the sufficiency of the documents will be final. The application cannot take the form of an application for renewal of existing licence. (my emphasis) The normal renewal reminders will continue to be issued to licence holders some two months prior to expiry. Existing licence holders who are renewing at the same time as they seek a new licence in name of a partnership or company are recommended to complete and lodge the renewal form in their own name to allow renewal of the existing licence to proceed as at present. At the same time they should obtain from the Licensing Section a new licence application form which should be completed with the full details of the corporate arrangements and lodged with appropriate documentation. The application for a new licence will be subject to different processing timescales and the existing licence will probably be renewed before the Council makes its decision on the new application. These arrangements should ensure that no existing licence is allowed to lapse. Please also note: that the name on the registration and insurance documents for the vehicle must not be changed until the new licence has been granted and issued by the Council."

Any change in the directors of the company holding the licence is just that. It is NOT a transfer of licence, it is only a change of director or partner, the licence is still held by the same "non natural person."

Now children, what part of that don't you understand? It is perfectly legal and above board. No black market exists.
Author:  gusmac [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:29 am ]
Post subject: 
swannee wrote:

The wording from the guidance note (to the legal requirement) is...

"In practical terms, applications seeking to replace the name of an individual as licence holder with the name of a non natural person, i.e. a company or partnership, will require to be accompanied by a legally binding partnership document or evidence of incorporation to the satisfaction of the Council Solicitor, whose decision on the sufficiency of the documents will be final. The application cannot take the form of an application for renewal of existing licence. (my emphasis) The normal renewal reminders will continue to be issued to licence holders some two months prior to expiry. Existing licence holders who are renewing at the same time as they seek a new licence in name of a partnership or company are recommended to complete and lodge the renewal form in their own name to allow renewal of the existing licence to proceed as at present. At the same time they should obtain from the Licensing Section a new licence application form which should be completed with the full details of the corporate arrangements and lodged with appropriate documentation. The application for a new licence will be subject to different processing timescales and the existing licence will probably be renewed before the Council makes its decision on the new application. These arrangements should ensure that no existing licence is allowed to lapse. Please also note: that the name on the registration and insurance documents for the vehicle must not be changed until the new licence has been granted and issued by the Council."

Any change in the directors of the company holding the licence is just that. It is NOT a transfer of licence, it is only a change of director or partner, the licence is still held by the same "non natural person.".


Who issued this guidance note?
Author:  Frank Lay [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Just as our members of parliament are finding out, things may be within the rules but can come back to bite you on the bum when certain people realise that the rules are not being used for their intended purpose.

Plates ARE being sold and transferred.

To say otherwise is either very stupid or a bare faced lie.

I have recently sold mine!
Author:  skippy41 [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
(6) Subject to subsection (5) above, the holder of a taxi or private hire car licence shall within 28
days of his selling or otherwise disposing of the vehicle to which the licence relates deliver to the
licensing authority his licence and any licence plate or other thing which has been issued by the
licensing authority for the purpose of indicating that the vehicle is a taxi or, as the case may be,

7 words added by Local Government (Transitional Provisions) (Scotland) Order 1995/1878 art. 3(c)
8 existing text renumbered as s.10(4)(a), words are inserted and s.10(4)(b) is added by Disability Discrimination
Act 1995 c. 50 Pt V s. 39(2)
(Represents Current Law in Force - for pending amendments see Prospective Law on Westlaw UK.)
Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 Page 8
private hire car, and if without reasonable excuse he fails to do so he shall be guilty of an offence
and liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 2 on the standard scale.
Author:  Jasbar [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:07 am ]
Post subject: 
gusmac wrote:
swannee wrote:

The wording from the guidance note (to the legal requirement) is...

"In practical terms, applications seeking to replace the name of an individual as licence holder with the name of a non natural person, i.e. a company or partnership, will require to be accompanied by a legally binding partnership document or evidence of incorporation to the satisfaction of the Council Solicitor, whose decision on the sufficiency of the documents will be final. The application cannot take the form of an application for renewal of existing licence. (my emphasis) The normal renewal reminders will continue to be issued to licence holders some two months prior to expiry. Existing licence holders who are renewing at the same time as they seek a new licence in name of a partnership or company are recommended to complete and lodge the renewal form in their own name to allow renewal of the existing licence to proceed as at present. At the same time they should obtain from the Licensing Section a new licence application form which should be completed with the full details of the corporate arrangements and lodged with appropriate documentation. The application for a new licence will be subject to different processing timescales and the existing licence will probably be renewed before the Council makes its decision on the new application. These arrangements should ensure that no existing licence is allowed to lapse. Please also note: that the name on the registration and insurance documents for the vehicle must not be changed until the new licence has been granted and issued by the Council."

Any change in the directors of the company holding the licence is just that. It is NOT a transfer of licence, it is only a change of director or partner, the licence is still held by the same "non natural person.".


Who issued this guidance note?


What swannee hasn't told us is whether this is, as I suspect, a proclamation from the council.

It has the stamp of process about it, not legal authority.

In other words, we are being told in this text how to proceed with the process.

Now, where a licence was in a single name, and it became incorporated, then that is a transfer of licence from one to another. It can't possibly be construed in any other way. It is a transfer.

And where a licence is incorporated it is operated by the construct that is that incorporated body. When the body changes it is a change of ownership, the operators change, it is a transfer of licence. At best it is a grey area and outwith the terms and spirit of the act. At worst it is blackmarket trading.


Besides which, incorporated companies are faux companies. Without the licence they don't have any value. It is the undersupply of taxis that creates the demand and the false plate value. Where a responsible council allows the free market to prevail, such licences have no value whatsoever.

So, the question for government is how a licence in East Lothian is worthless while a licence in adjacent Edinburgh is "worth" £50,000.

Why is the East Lothian holder being discriminated against by not being allowed to accrue a similar value?

If restriction is legal, why hasn't the government ensured the level playing field by insisting every licensing area is restricted?

Couldn't be because they already know, like Aberdeen and West Lothian, that such restriction breaches competition and free market rules as well fundamental Human Rights.

Game over. Get used to it.
Author:  swannee [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'll say this Jasbar, you're quick!! Fancy noticing that an extract from a guidance note is to tell you how to proceed with the process!!

You spoil it then by claiming that "where a licence was in a single name, and it became incorporated, then that is a transfer of licence from one to another."

Read the post. The licence held by the individual is surrendered, returned even and a NEW licence is issued to the incorporated non-natural entity after due consideration of the NEW application by the licencing authority.

The licence is held by the corporate body, the directors of which must be "fit and proper." It matters not a whit whether they change or not, the licence is always held by the same entity. It is not transferred.

Your opinion on the status of these companies is your opinion only and not that of others better qualified than a taxi driver to pass such opinion.

As regards your other nonsense, there is no question for government, they have delegated the matter to the local authority who are better placed to judge whether restriction is required or not due to local circumstances. i.e. it is a local matter where options exist.

As we all know every area is different, there is no universal need for restriction or de-restriction. Unless you think you know better than everyone else?

btw. Like you I have unfettered access to my opinion and I am not subject to any restrictions other than those imposed by the forum administrators.
Author:  gusmac [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
gusmac wrote:

Who issued this guidance note?


Swanee would you mind telling us where this document came from?
Author:  Skull [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
The fact is, you cannot operate a taxi without a public license. Therefore, any trade created by the de facto (in reality, or fact) transfer of such a license is not what Parliament intended.

The license may be held by the incorporated non-natural entity, and the directors of that company may change, but in this case, and in practise, is purely to facilitate the de facto transfer of a public license. The monies changing hands is proof of trade, and the artificial value simply due to under supply of license plates.

If you doubt any of the above Swannee, allowing everyone access to a public license won't change a thing. You will still be able to change the directors of your company, if and when you please, but I doubt it would be worth anything.

If there is no de facto transfer in license plates then how do John Cowe and now City Cabs make money? No transfer, no sale, simple as. ..

http://www.edinburghplates.co.uk/for_sale.php
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