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Skull's puny argument
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Author:  Caledonian Cabbie [ Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:22 am ]
Post subject:  Skull's puny argument
You'd think a critic of restricted taxi numbers would be able to articulate a better argument than this lightweight stuff that Skull came up with yesterday, when he said:

Quote:
Qualified Taxi drivers have earned the right, of unfettered access to the tools of their trade. To own or to drive a taxi, without having to pay hiked rentals or inflated artificial plate premiums.


This should up the ante a bit:


The one simple question that needs, in my opinion, answering is, how long must I drive a taxi for someone before I am worthy of a licence? If this game is about public service, which some people still allege, and I work 6 days per week, hiring a cab from someone who has never driven one, have I not given after 5 or 10 years more public service than them? Do I not deserve a licence? Should my union not protect my interests, or should they continue to permit me to be treated as a serf?

How long must I work my ass off before I am deemed worthy and fit and proper, in your opinion how long would that be? 5? 10? 15? 20 years? Or until have enough money to carry on the never decreasing circle.

Believe it or not there are drivers in this country who have been on waiting lists for a very long time, indeed if they went to London, learned the knowledge, they would be cab proprietors a lot quicker than in their own towns and cities, can this be right?

Perhaps a system is needed where a sort of apprenticeship of a few years is obligatory, therefore licences are not held back from people who probably deserve them a lot more than existing proprietors.
Author:  Frank Lay [ Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Much as I am trying not to,
I do agree that it is ridiculous that some holders of plates do not even hold taxi drivers licences.

This is one of the first things that needs addressing,
An operators licence should be linked to the driving licence.

This would in practice require plates to be in the name of an individual and not a company.

This would also have the benefit of making the trade in plates not impossible (someone will always find a way) but at least more difficult.
Author:  Jasbar [ Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Frank Lay wrote:
Much as I am trying not to,
I do agree that it is ridiculous that some holders of plates do not even hold taxi drivers licences.

This is one of the first things that needs addressing,
An operators licence should be linked to the driving licence.

This would in practice require plates to be in the name of an individual and not a company.

This would also have the benefit of making the trade in plates not impossible (someone will always find a way) but at least more difficult.


You seem to have a talent for riding roughshod over every tenet of free market economics.

Were you brought up with a cuff round the ear when you stepped out of line? Stern controlling parents. Were you never allowed to step out from that control to think for yourself. Were you never introduced to the concept that you have a right to live your own life, and others have the same right to live theirs, free from overbearing interference.

What part of the freedom concept is it that you can't grasp?
Author:  Skull [ Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
"Puny" indeed. .. :roll:


I'm interested in your use of the word “choice” Frank. If a qualified driver truly did have a “choice”, as you claim, we would not be having this debate. He would simply set up shop in his area of “choice”, without having to move elsewhere, or to seek anyone's permission. The license to operate his own vehicle would be his by right. His “choice” to exercise this right would be his, and his alone. It would not be for you Frank, or anyone else to deny him his “choice”.


His “choice” is simply to apply for a license and to be granted unfettered access to the tool of his trade. Hiked rentals and inflated artificial plate premiums, are borne out of the restrictions placed on his “choice”. If this were not the case hiked rentals and inflated plate premiums, and the illegal black market trade in public property, would cease to exist.
Author:  toots [ Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Why is it that the title of the thread changes, but, the content never does. Fu*k knows what you'll have to contribute if Edinburgh does de-restrict?
Author:  Frank Lay [ Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
gary gary gary,

You HAVE your choice,

You can choose to be a taxi driver anywhere.

If you wish to operate, then you have to take different areas licencing conditions into account when choosing your area.

Edinburgh suited you in the past, when you had plates to sell.
Now that they are gone you are not so happy, IT WAS YOUR CHOICE.

The Edinburgh taxi trade does not revolve around you, In fact due to your behaviour you are pretty much excluded, THAT WAS YOU CHOICE.

Why dont you just get a plate in one of those highly successful areas where plates are not restricted?
Author:  saf [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Frank Lay wrote:
gary gary gary,

You HAVE your choice,

You can choose to be a taxi driver anywhere.

If you wish to operate, then you have to take different areas licencing conditions into account when choosing your area.

Edinburgh suited you in the past, when you had plates to sell.
Now that they are gone you are not so happy, IT WAS YOUR CHOICE.

The Edinburgh taxi trade does not revolve around you, In fact due to your behaviour you are pretty much excluded, THAT WAS YOU CHOICE.

Why dont you just get a plate in one of those highly successful areas where plates are not restricted?




Didn't realise he had gone,if he has, there is one unfortunate that looks like him hanging around the busiest place in Edinburgh....the Haymarket. :shock: :lol:
Author:  Jasbar [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
toots wrote:
Why is it that the title of the thread changes, but, the content never does. Fu*k knows what you'll have to contribute if Edinburgh does de-restrict?


Quite simple.

The campaign moves onto real quality controls, investing the professionalism of the trade in the driver. I've already listed what I believe these quality controls should be. But when de-restriction does come we will be involved in the council process to push for them, and engaging media and customer focus groups in support of them.

Then the campaign moves on to ensuring a fair remuneration for the worth invested. Unlike the PH we will be pushing for a complete revamp of the tariff, to take account of individual market conditions at various times.

We are not in the business of working for nothing. ECPH and its reduced tariff is madness. It is unsustainable. It's not in drivers' interests to work to subsidise customers. Remember it's not those who control this tariff who are actually paying for it.

We will be working for a single tier licensing system with real vehicle choice. We will be striving to end the discrimination of the WAV policy which mitigates against fair treatment of drivers and wheelchair passengers alike. The policy should be to deliver fully inclusive and appropriate access for wheelchair users, not simply based on dodgy ideology designed to satisfy politicians' need for headlines.

We will be campaigning to end the dominance of City and Central and to achieve a fairer representation of trade interests. It's no longer acceptable for trade matters to be discussed in secret committee then presented as a done deal to the council, the majority of the trade excluded from any influence.

Derestriction is just the beginning. Once achieved the real work begins.

Derestriction will allow those within the trade to work with the council as EQUAL partners, rather than the control freak pseudo council employee relationship we have now where the council dictates to everyone, where it thinks it can organise the market better than those who fund or use its services. This is patent nonsense.

So Toots, get ready for the ride. Enjoy it and take your full part when offered the chance to do so.

Or sit back as a bystander in the bewildered herd.

Exciting times. Real challenges.
Author:  Frank Lay [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oh pervy jim,

Looks like you have got everything planned.

At least in your imagination.

What a shame that you have burned your bridges by getting up everyones nose.

No-one pays much heed to you anymore, you are just the dafty that needs to be humoured.
Author:  Frank Lay [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jasbar wrote:
Derestriction is just the beginning. Once achieved the real work begins.


What you mean is that in the unlikely event of derestriction, the "beginning" is you getting a plate.

Your "Real Work" will be you trying to get some form of cap back on to protect your plate.
Author:  Caledonian Cabbie [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Frank Lay wrote:

Your "Real Work" will be you trying to get some form of cap back on to protect your plate.


And no doubt the rest of the trade will be fighting to keep the cap off?
Author:  toots [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The campaign moves onto real quality controls


Such as?

Quote:
investing the professionalism of the trade in the driver


for example?

Quote:
I've already listed what I believe these quality controls should be.


Could you please list them again :D

Quote:
But when de-restriction does come we will be involved in the council process to push for them, and engaging media and customer focus groups in support of them.


How will you do this?

Quote:
Then the campaign moves on to ensuring a fair remuneration for the worth invested


How long after de-restriction do you envisage this might take?

Quote:
Unlike the PH we will be pushing for a complete revamp of the tariff, to take account of individual market conditions at various times


PH don't need a complete revamp of the tariff as they already have control of their own tariff and already take into account individual market conditions

Quote:
We are not in the business of working for nothing


This is where we will differ. If you weren't in the business of working for nothing you wouldn't be pushing for de-restriction. Everybody has a piper to pay be it an owner or a lender, unless of course you are very fortunate and you can pay cash for your investment. De-restriction will see more people competing for the same customers, trying to make rent/mortgage payments, feed their families, save for holidays, pay the loan for vehicle they've bought etc etc etc. I don't believe market forces apply within the cab trade so much as they do in other businesses. When times are quiet drivers don't quit they just work longer hours and see less of their families and friends. This of course is only my opinion and I am certain one day you will find out for yourself :-|

Quote:
We will be working for a single tier licensing system with real vehicle choice


What a wonderful idea, but, realistically you haven't even got de-restriction yet, how long do you think it is going to take for single tier to be brought in?

Quote:
We will be striving to end the discrimination of the WAV policy which mitigates against fair treatment of drivers and wheelchair passengers alike.


How so does it mitigate against wheelchair passengers?

Quote:
Derestriction will allow those within the trade to work with the council as EQUAL partners


How will this be achieved?

Quote:
So Toots, get ready for the ride. Enjoy it and take your full part when offered the chance to do so


Been there, done that and got the tee shirt. I'm more inclined to chill a little at the moment.

Quote:
Real challenges


The only real challenge I have at the moment is getting clear and concise answer to my questions. These are genuine questions and not to be seen as criticisms, although I don't think you'd care if they were. I really would appreciate a simple straightforward answer that is not tangled in spin. Anyway I have a little challenge for you and that is to answer the questions without bringing in the BPG or the word unfettered cos they are beginning to get up my nose :wink: :D
Author:  Jasbar [ Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:46 am ]
Post subject: 
toots wrote:
Quote:
The campaign moves onto real quality controls


Such as?

Quote:
investing the professionalism of the trade in the driver


for example?

Quote:
I've already listed what I believe these quality controls should be.


Could you please list them again :D

Quote:
But when de-restriction does come we will be involved in the council process to push for them, and engaging media and customer focus groups in support of them.


How will you do this?

Quote:
Then the campaign moves on to ensuring a fair remuneration for the worth invested


How long after de-restriction do you envisage this might take?

Quote:
Unlike the PH we will be pushing for a complete revamp of the tariff, to take account of individual market conditions at various times


PH don't need a complete revamp of the tariff as they already have control of their own tariff and already take into account individual market conditions

Quote:
We are not in the business of working for nothing


This is where we will differ. If you weren't in the business of working for nothing you wouldn't be pushing for de-restriction. Everybody has a piper to pay be it an owner or a lender, unless of course you are very fortunate and you can pay cash for your investment. De-restriction will see more people competing for the same customers, trying to make rent/mortgage payments, feed their families, save for holidays, pay the loan for vehicle they've bought etc etc etc. I don't believe market forces apply within the cab trade so much as they do in other businesses. When times are quiet drivers don't quit they just work longer hours and see less of their families and friends. This of course is only my opinion and I am certain one day you will find out for yourself :-|

Quote:
We will be working for a single tier licensing system with real vehicle choice


What a wonderful idea, but, realistically you haven't even got de-restriction yet, how long do you think it is going to take for single tier to be brought in?

Quote:
We will be striving to end the discrimination of the WAV policy which mitigates against fair treatment of drivers and wheelchair passengers alike.


How so does it mitigate against wheelchair passengers?

Quote:
Derestriction will allow those within the trade to work with the council as EQUAL partners


How will this be achieved?

Quote:
So Toots, get ready for the ride. Enjoy it and take your full part when offered the chance to do so


Been there, done that and got the tee shirt. I'm more inclined to chill a little at the moment.

Quote:
Real challenges


The only real challenge I have at the moment is getting clear and concise answer to my questions. These are genuine questions and not to be seen as criticisms, although I don't think you'd care if they were. I really would appreciate a simple straightforward answer that is not tangled in spin. Anyway I have a little challenge for you and that is to answer the questions without bringing in the BPG or the word unfettered cos they are beginning to get up my nose :wink: :D


Take a look at yourself. FFS!
Author:  saf [ Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Jasbar wrote:
toots wrote:
Quote:
The campaign moves onto real quality controls


Such as?

Quote:
investing the professionalism of the trade in the driver


for example?

Quote:
I've already listed what I believe these quality controls should be.


Could you please list them again :D

Quote:
But when de-restriction does come we will be involved in the council process to push for them, and engaging media and customer focus groups in support of them.


How will you do this?

Quote:
Then the campaign moves on to ensuring a fair remuneration for the worth invested


How long after de-restriction do you envisage this might take?

Quote:
Unlike the PH we will be pushing for a complete revamp of the tariff, to take account of individual market conditions at various times


PH don't need a complete revamp of the tariff as they already have control of their own tariff and already take into account individual market conditions

Quote:
We are not in the business of working for nothing


This is where we will differ. If you weren't in the business of working for nothing you wouldn't be pushing for de-restriction. Everybody has a piper to pay be it an owner or a lender, unless of course you are very fortunate and you can pay cash for your investment. De-restriction will see more people competing for the same customers, trying to make rent/mortgage payments, feed their families, save for holidays, pay the loan for vehicle they've bought etc etc etc. I don't believe market forces apply within the cab trade so much as they do in other businesses. When times are quiet drivers don't quit they just work longer hours and see less of their families and friends. This of course is only my opinion and I am certain one day you will find out for yourself :-|

Quote:
We will be working for a single tier licensing system with real vehicle choice


What a wonderful idea, but, realistically you haven't even got de-restriction yet, how long do you think it is going to take for single tier to be brought in?

Quote:
We will be striving to end the discrimination of the WAV policy which mitigates against fair treatment of drivers and wheelchair passengers alike.


How so does it mitigate against wheelchair passengers?

Quote:
Derestriction will allow those within the trade to work with the council as EQUAL partners


How will this be achieved?

Quote:
So Toots, get ready for the ride. Enjoy it and take your full part when offered the chance to do so


Been there, done that and got the tee shirt. I'm more inclined to chill a little at the moment.

Quote:
Real challenges


The only real challenge I have at the moment is getting clear and concise answer to my questions. These are genuine questions and not to be seen as criticisms, although I don't think you'd care if they were. I really would appreciate a simple straightforward answer that is not tangled in spin. Anyway I have a little challenge for you and that is to answer the questions without bringing in the BPG or the word unfettered cos they are beginning to get up my nose :wink: :D


Take a look at yourself. FFS!



Toots 1- Jim 0 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  chipper [ Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
toots wrote:
The only real challenge I have at the moment is getting clear and concise answer to my questions.


good luck toots as if you do it would be a first :lol: :lol: :lol:
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