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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:12 pm 
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Sent 8/8 @ 2300 hrs

TO: Donald Macleod
Council Solicitor
City of Edinburgh Council


8th August 2012

Dear Mr Macleod

TACHOGRAPHS – the new imperative from the policy to restrict licensed taxis

You will be aware of my recent sojourn with one of the principal private hire companies in Edinburgh, brought about because of my inability to gain work driving a licensed taxi in Edinburgh; which I am properly qualified to do, but excluded and ostracised by the taxi trade for exercising my right to articulate my political opinion in respect of the council’s policy to restrict taxis in the area and which has empowered vested trade interests.

Since becoming qualified I have seen the number of taxis in Edinburgh increase by around 30% while private hire has expanded more than ten times as much – 300%. This has been possible because the lack of restriction of private hire licenses has allowed any increase in public demand to be met by private hire before the cumbersome studies to determine the demand for taxi services could be undertaken.

The effect of this has been to drive the provision of taxi services to the lowest common denominator in terms of price and service to the customer.

As highlighted on the Taxi Driver Online forum, and now outlined directly to you, my recent experience has highlighted to me that not only does the policy to restrict taxis mitigate against the employment opportunities of an individual, not only does it restrict one’s ability to conduct their own business in a supposedly free market political and economic system, it specifically mitigates against the interests of the fare paying public and the public generally because of the inherently unsafe working practices which drivers are forced to endure in order to make any sort of decent living for their labour. In short, private hire, as proved by my personal experience, has proved itself to be little more than a danger to the public.

I cite one situation which is known to me. Although I am certain that many such instances exist.

Because of the high rental fees charges to drivers, as well as the unfair additional costs placed upon them in terms of job commissions and other fees, and vehicle charges which rightfully should be borne by owners, drivers are forced to work inordinately long hours – 7 days a week, without a day off for rest, and 12 hours per day, more if they can get them, it is clear that drivers are being encouraged to work well beyond what would be considered safe in any other section of the driving profession. In the absence of any realistic monitoring by the authorities, particularly through the base licence system, this is now the norm rather than the occasional.

The example highlighted on the forum was where a job was called from the airport because of an air service cancellation; the destination of which was WICK. I happen to know that this was not a single job, there were many, each of which had the same potential for disastrous consequences I now outline.

For the job in question, it was allocated late afternoon. The driver had first signed on at around 7.30 am that morning. On arriving in Wick the driver dropped a passenger off at their home; then he agreed an additional fare of £30 to take another passenger a further 15 miles on onward journey. The driver then returned back to Edinburgh in a continuous driving shift, the total of which was over 21 hours.

My contention is that the culture in the company, and I suggest in private hire generally until proved otherwise, is such that such a plum job would never be refused by a driver.

I understand that the company is supposed to have contingencies in place to ensure that this couldn’t happen; but I also understand that jobs can be allocated to favoured drivers by control room staff in breach of the rules.

When this driver set off he had already placed his passenger in some considerable danger.

By the time this driver was into his marathon journey he was placing every other pedestrian and road user in peril because of his selfish actions. (Remember, we don’t know what this driver was doing prior to his shift, nor do we know what he was doing after it; and which could have imperiled the public even more).

It is worth noting that the greater part of this journey’s route was on the “killer” A9, a road notorious for serious road accidents because of the changes from single to dual carriageway and back again, which encourages impatient overtaking and bad driving.

It is clear that, while private hire does exist in parallel with taxi trades in other parts of the country, over 75% of local authorities do not restrict taxis and the key service, as in London which also doesn’t restrict, is for quality hackney taxis (and where the problem with mini-cabs is well known).

It appears we have now reached the point where the council’s policy to restrict taxis, and the lack of any proper monitoring system or tachograph, is actively imperiling the public as it encourages the descent to the lowest common denominator of taxi service provision.

I urge the council to consider this matter fully and look forward to your earliest reply.

Yours

Jim Taylor




“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

Attributed to Voltaire.

_________________
Skull, "You are a police inspector, aren't you?"
Cab Inspector Smith, "Yes."
Skull, "So, are you going to tell Mr Taylor what his rights are?"
Smith, "And ... What rights?"


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:21 pm 
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Utter Crap...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:44 pm 
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bloodnock wrote:
Utter Crap...


Really?

So you'd be quite happy tootling along with your family in the car on the same "killer" A9 as this guy?

That what you're saying?

#-o

_________________
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Cab Inspector Smith, "Yes."
Skull, "So, are you going to tell Mr Taylor what his rights are?"
Smith, "And ... What rights?"


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:53 pm 
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Jasbar wrote:
bloodnock wrote:
Utter Crap...


Really?

So you'd be quite happy tootling along with your family in the car on the same "killer" A9 as this guy?

That what you're saying?

#-o


Get real, How often will your scenario happen? Why should it Just happen to PH? Do you really think a Tacho is going to stop them?

PH drivers are no more a risk than anyone else on the road, probably much safer in fact..Id even bet money on that more folk are Killed In police related driving Incidents than are killed by A ph driver falling asleep at the wheel..

Like I said earlier...Utter Crap!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:59 pm 
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I think jasbar has a good point =D>

how can the cab trade shout about the 'excessive' hours come deregulation, when there hasnt been any research into driver hours period, from memory drivers do as many hours in regulated areas as deregulated ones......and there's still only 24 hours in a day irrespective of where a taxi works.

If we're limited to set hours with time off then fares would have to increase otherwise shift patterns would take a serious hit, as with the supply and demand argument.

Instead of slagging him, he should be applauded for highlighting his view.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:28 am 
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captain cab wrote:
I think jasbar has a good point =D>

how can the cab trade shout about the 'excessive' hours come deregulation, when there hasnt been any research into driver hours period, from memory drivers do as many hours in regulated areas as deregulated ones......and there's still only 24 hours in a day irrespective of where a taxi works.

If we're limited to set hours with time off then fares would have to increase otherwise shift patterns would take a serious hit, as with the supply and demand argument.

Instead of slagging him, he should be applauded for highlighting his view.


He's quite entitled to high light his views..but then again so are the rest of us and I still think in this Instance it's Utter Crap.

PH and Taxis Unlike buses or HGVs cannot carry large enough amounts of Passengers or Payloads needed to cover the cost or inconvenience of Tachograph Usage.

Nor could we carry a second driver on longer routes to take over when our driver hours run out and nor could we stop overnight in a layby with our passengers left stranded just because we ran out of driver time 20 miles from our destination.

If we had to Increase fares to the point of being ridiculously uncompetitive with Bus or Rail operators simply to cover the Burdensome extra costs involved then we would rapidly become as extinct as the Dodo.

Its not the few hundred quid cost of the Tacho that's the problem, It would be the misery caused by runs you could not honour because you were held up In traffic, Got hit by a 30 Mile detour, or for example the real possibility that your rest Period would fall Mid way between taking old Mrs Jones from her home to the Local Health center and she'd end up sitting watching you eating your sarnies until you could legally drive off again.

So..By scale of operation and of vehicle size if Tachos came in then Taxis and PH's would go out along with several hundred thousand Taxi/PH jobs and every other job related to our trades...It's that simple.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:33 am 
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I would think the HGV industry felt a similar way about tacho's, in much the same way satanic mill owners thought the same way about child labour laws coming in. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:55 am 
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captain cab wrote:
I would think the HGV industry felt a similar way about tacho's, in much the same way satanic mill owners thought the same way about child labour laws coming in. :wink:



It's not a good comparison using HGV's as an example for they have little or no competition other than that that comes from within their own trade, that's because heavy Items, Large Goods or bigger quantities have to travel by road in almost every event.

Also, Unlike Bus operators on their nice big juicy BSOG's, we poor buggers actually need to make a real profit from real passengers in order to cover our costs and to make a profit. maybe If made the same State Subsidized £Millions as the large Bus Operators do I might warm to Tachographs more..but that ain't ever going to happen, We'll just end up handing them our priced out clients on a plate.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:00 am 
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bloodnock wrote:


It's not a good comparison using HGV's as an example for they have little or no competition other than that that comes from within their own trade, that's because heavy Items, Large Goods or bigger quantities have to travel by road in almost every event.

Also, Unlike Bus operators on their nice big juicy BSOG's, we poor buggers actually need to make a real profit from real passengers in order to cover our costs and to make a profit. maybe If made the same State Subsidized £Millions as the large Bus Operators do I might warm to Tachographs more..but that ain't ever going to happen, We'll just end up handing them our priced out clients on a plate.


I would have thought a worse example would have been satanic mill owners :wink:

I think there's serious competition in HGV's tbh but I also think it needs looked at in respect of the licensed taxi and PH industry

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:16 am 
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captain cab wrote:
bloodnock wrote:


It's not a good comparison using HGV's as an example for they have little or no competition other than that that comes from within their own trade, that's because heavy Items, Large Goods or bigger quantities have to travel by road in almost every event.

Also, Unlike Bus operators on their nice big juicy BSOG's, we poor buggers actually need to make a real profit from real passengers in order to cover our costs and to make a profit. maybe If made the same State Subsidized £Millions as the large Bus Operators do I might warm to Tachographs more..but that ain't ever going to happen, We'll just end up handing them our priced out clients on a plate.


I would have thought a worse example would have been satanic mill owners :wink:

I think there's serious competition in HGV's tbh but I also think it needs looked at in respect of the licensed taxi and PH industry


I Don't have any qualms about sending children up Lum's to sweep them..just as long as they don't get stuck there and block the flue.

But honest to god...Open that can Of Tacho worms for Government examination and we would all wiped out by it's it's over zealous implementation. Feck knows, It's hard enough to get the going rate for the job today, Imagine how impossible it would be after a doubling or trebling of fare costs to pay for it all!

Besides...It's not that much of an Issue, Unless your hell bent on venting your grievances about everyone and everything to anyone and anything that just might seem vaguely interested..or not.

I'll not lose any sleep over it, It's not going to happen in a long time anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:19 am 
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bloodnock wrote:

I'll not lose any sleep over it, It's not going to happen in a long time anyway.



It could ultimately finish many PH firms, which would be amusing, but it could also cost the country a fortune in tax credits.

But in honesty, if in the 21st Century we need to work 70 odd hours per week to make ends meet, then we need to look at the entire system.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:25 am 
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captain cab wrote:
bloodnock wrote:

I'll not lose any sleep over it, It's not going to happen in a long time anyway.



It could ultimately finish many PH firms, which would be amusing, but it could also cost the country a fortune in tax credits.

But in honesty, if in the 21st Century we need to work 70 odd hours per week to make ends meet, then we need to look at the entire system.


Not just PH's...Hacks would be equally susceptible, your mileage rates are similar to PH rates, you need to drive as long and as far to earn similar money as PH's and if anything your Overheads due to your extra scrutiny and rules of compliance are higher...

It may well be that Hacks would suffer more than PHs. :?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:18 am 
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bloodnock wrote:
But honest to god...Open that can Of Tacho worms for Government examination and we would all wiped out by it's it's over zealous implementation. Feck knows, It's hard enough to get the going rate for the job today, Imagine how impossible it would be after a doubling or trebling of fare costs to pay for it all!

Why a doubling or trebling? Wouldn't it just cut down on all those hours that you don't earn in?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:19 am 
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Jasbar wrote:
Sent 8/8 @ 2300 hrs

TO: Donald Macleod
Council Solicitor
City of Edinburgh Council


8th August 2012

Dear Mr Macleod

TACHOGRAPHS – the new imperative from the policy to restrict licensed taxis

You will be aware of my recent sojourn with one of the principal private hire companies in Edinburgh, brought about because of my inability to gain work driving a licensed taxi in Edinburgh; which I am properly qualified to do, but excluded and ostracised by the taxi trade for exercising my right to articulate my political opinion in respect of the council’s policy to restrict taxis in the area and which has empowered vested trade interests.

Since becoming qualified I have seen the number of taxis in Edinburgh increase by around 30% while private hire has expanded more than ten times as much – 300%. This has been possible because the lack of restriction of private hire licenses has allowed any increase in public demand to be met by private hire before the cumbersome studies to determine the demand for taxi services could be undertaken.

The effect of this has been to drive the provision of taxi services to the lowest common denominator in terms of price and service to the customer.

As highlighted on the Taxi Driver Online forum, and now outlined directly to you, my recent experience has highlighted to me that not only does the policy to restrict taxis mitigate against the employment opportunities of an individual, not only does it restrict one’s ability to conduct their own business in a supposedly free market political and economic system, it specifically mitigates against the interests of the fare paying public and the public generally because of the inherently unsafe working practices which drivers are forced to endure in order to make any sort of decent living for their labour. In short, private hire, as proved by my personal experience, has proved itself to be little more than a danger to the public.

I cite one situation which is known to me. Although I am certain that many such instances exist.

Because of the high rental fees charges to drivers, as well as the unfair additional costs placed upon them in terms of job commissions and other fees, and vehicle charges which rightfully should be borne by owners, drivers are forced to work inordinately long hours – 7 days a week, without a day off for rest, and 12 hours per day, more if they can get them, it is clear that drivers are being encouraged to work well beyond what would be considered safe in any other section of the driving profession. In the absence of any realistic monitoring by the authorities, particularly through the base licence system, this is now the norm rather than the occasional.

The example highlighted on the forum was where a job was called from the airport because of an air service cancellation; the destination of which was WICK. I happen to know that this was not a single job, there were many, each of which had the same potential for disastrous consequences I now outline.

For the job in question, it was allocated late afternoon. The driver had first signed on at around 7.30 am that morning. On arriving in Wick the driver dropped a passenger off at their home; then he agreed an additional fare of £30 to take another passenger a further 15 miles on onward journey. The driver then returned back to Edinburgh in a continuous driving shift, the total of which was over 21 hours.

My contention is that the culture in the company, and I suggest in private hire generally until proved otherwise, is such that such a plum job would never be refused by a driver.

I understand that the company is supposed to have contingencies in place to ensure that this couldn’t happen; but I also understand that jobs can be allocated to favoured drivers by control room staff in breach of the rules.

When this driver set off he had already placed his passenger in some considerable danger.

By the time this driver was into his marathon journey he was placing every other pedestrian and road user in peril because of his selfish actions. (Remember, we don’t know what this driver was doing prior to his shift, nor do we know what he was doing after it; and which could have imperiled the public even more).

It is worth noting that the greater part of this journey’s route was on the “killer” A9, a road notorious for serious road accidents because of the changes from single to dual carriageway and back again, which encourages impatient overtaking and bad driving.

It is clear that, while private hire does exist in parallel with taxi trades in other parts of the country, over 75% of local authorities do not restrict taxis and the key service, as in London which also doesn’t restrict, is for quality hackney taxis (and where the problem with mini-cabs is well known).

It appears we have now reached the point where the council’s policy to restrict taxis, and the lack of any proper monitoring system or tachograph, is actively imperiling the public as it encourages the descent to the lowest common denominator of taxi service provision.

I urge the council to consider this matter fully and look forward to your earliest reply.

Yours

Jim Taylor




“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

Attributed to Voltaire.


=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:41 am 
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HGVs drive for hours on end without a break up & down the motorways & roads of the UK, taxis are immobile most of the time (Friday & Saturday nightshirts after midnight things tend to get busier)

Eg

10am HGV leaves & has a 6 hour round trip drive but that's one continous journey, so 2x 45 min breaks are needed to combat fatigue & arrives home at depot at 5.30pm

10am taxi driver logs on, drives to a rank, waits 20 minutes on fare. Gets one, job takes 10 mins. Cabbie then waits another 20 mins and gets allocated a job from radio. Takes 20 mins. Cabbie drops off at train station & waits 40 minutes for next job.

Between 10am & 11.50, the driver has worked (driven on tacho'd time) 30 minutes out of 1 hour 50 minutes and Jim, you know this is a common scenario

HGV drivers are DRIVING for hours on end & require regular breaks. Taxi drivers are'nt consistently driving and spend, at least half the average work day sitting in cab in a radio zone or sat at a rank


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