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Licensing officers duristriction over out of town cars plyin
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Author:  sarahdeacon [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Licensing officers duristriction over out of town cars plyin
Does anyone know what the licensing officers duristriction is over out of town cars plying for hire?
Author:  Brummie Cabbie [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
sarahdeacon wrote:
Does anyone know what the licensing officers duristriction is over out of town cars plying for hire?

Good question, which most LEOs try to fob off with their view and some sort of slant on the legislation and thereby profess they have no jurisdiction to prosecute the ‘skull and crossbones’ merchants. The truth is they can’t be ar*ed!!

IMHO the bottom line is in The Town Police Clauses 1847 and numerous stated cases.

In the TPC 1847 it states;

37 Commissioners may licence hackney carriages
And with respect to hackney carriages, be it enacted as follows:
The commissioners may from time to time licence to ply for hire within the prescribed distance, or if no distance is prescribed, within five miles from the General Post Office of the city, town, or place to which the special Act refers, (which in that case shall be deemed the prescribed distance), such number of hackney coaches or carriages of any kind or description adapted to the carriage of persons as they think fit.

Modification
Modified, in relation to hackney carriages, by the Transport Act 1985, s 16.

38 What vehicles to be deemed hackney carriages
Every wheeled carriage, whatever may be its form or construction, used in standing or plying for hire in any street within the prescribed distance, and every carriage standing upon any street within the prescribed distance, having thereon any numbered plate required by this or the special Act to be fixed upon a hackney carriage, or having thereon any plate resembling or intended to resemble any such plate as aforesaid, shall be deemed to be a hackney carriage within the meaning of this Act; and in all proceedings at law or otherwise the term "hackney carriage" shall be sufficient to describe any such carriage: Provided always, that no stage coach used for the purpose of standing or plying for passengers to be carried for hire at separate fares, and duly licensed for that purpose, and having thereon the proper numbered plates required by law to be placed on such stage coaches, shall be deemed to be a hackney carriage within the meaning of this Act.

45 Penalty for plying for hire without a licence
If the proprietor or part proprietor of any carriage, or any person so concerned as aforesaid, permits the same to be used as a hackney carriage plying for hire within the prescribed distance without having obtained a licence as aforesaid for such carriage, or during the time that such licence is suspended as hereinafter provided, or if any person be found driving, standing, or plying for hire with any carriage within the prescribed distance for which such licence as aforesaid has not been previously obtained, or without having the number of such carriage corresponding with the number of the licence openly displayed on such carriage, every such person so offending shall for every such offence be liable to a penalty not exceeding [level 4 on the standard scale].

Amendment
Maximum penalty on any conviction increased and converted to a level on the standard scale by
the Criminal Justice Act 1982, ss 37, 39, 46, Sch 3.

What all that means in a nutshell is that ALL vehicles that ply for hire are deemed to be Hackney Carriages ( Section 38 ), but to ply for hire legally they must first be licensed ( Section 45 ) and they must be licensed in the prescribed distance (the licensing authority in today’s language) in which they are operating ( Section 37 ). Also, all proprietors and drivers are liable in such circumstances, as defined in Section 45.

So, if a Hackney Carriage is not licensed in the area it is plying for hire in, then it is acting illegally.

The simplest prosecutions are under the Woodings stated case, but if your LEO does not have the will and can’t be ar*ed to prosecute then there is little you can do.

Involving your MP might be helpful, but don’t count on it.

PS Don't be surprised if this thread disappears from this, the News Section, and mysteriously reappears in the Licensing and Legal Section. Admin do have a penchant for keeping things tidy and in the right 'box'.

:wink: :wink: :wink:
Author:  Sussex [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Licensing officers duristriction over out of town cars p
sarahdeacon wrote:
Does anyone know what the licensing officers duristriction is over out of town cars plying for hire?

They have powers over out of town cars plying in the same way as they have over unlicensed cars plying.

However they have no powers to check the vehicles or the drivers.

In other words, in my opinion, they can only ask them to move on or undertake 'test purchase' prosecution operations.
Author:  sarahdeacon [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thank u very much for your post.

We have a problem here, operators are licensing their cabs in different boroughs then coming into our area and plying for hire off the streets, without have a p/h office to work out of. It's blatently obvious that they don't work from an office as they continue to pull up outside the same place, to tout for work, does the statment above still stand, please and thank you
Author:  Sussex [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
sarahdeacon wrote:
does the statment below still stand, please and thank you

What statement below? :?
Author:  sarahdeacon [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thank you Brummie cabbie that should had said
Author:  sarahdeacon [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sussex wrote:
sarahdeacon wrote:
does the statment below still stand, please and thank you

What statement below? :?


Apologies, i am new to this forum and am just getting used to it lol
Author:  sarahdeacon [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
sarahdeacon wrote:
Sussex wrote:
sarahdeacon wrote:
does the statment below still stand, please and thank you

What statement below? :?


Apologies, i am new to this forum and am just getting used to it lol


Thank you for your quotes
Author:  sarahdeacon [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
sarahdeacon wrote:
sarahdeacon wrote:
Sussex wrote:
sarahdeacon wrote:
does the statment below still stand, please and thank you

What statement below? :?


Apologies, i am new to this forum and am just getting used to it lol


Thank you for your comment
Author:  volvoman [ Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:11 am ]
Post subject: 
sarahdeacon wrote:
Thank u very much for your post.

We have a problem here, operators are licensing their cabs in different boroughs then coming into our area and plying for hire off the streets, without have a p/h office to work out of. It's blatently obvious that they don't work from an office as they continue to pull up outside the same place, to tout for work, does the statment above still stand, please and thank you

In our neck of the woods there is an infestation of cabs which are licensed more than 60 miles away but working for a private hire firm in the borough of North Tyneside. These jokers can be seen in Newcastle and Gateshead areas, many of them parking in exactly the same locations night after night and unlawfully plying for hire, leading to many blanks for legitimately booked private hire vehicles. 8) 8) 8)
Author:  sarahdeacon [ Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Surely if all these cars are operating illegally, then there has to be concerns regarding passenger safety, if i am correct the role of the LEO, is not only hackney/private hire enforcement, but don't they have a duty to protect the public.

If these vehicles are being operated in this manner, obviously their insurance is nul and void and wouldn't a LEO knowingly letting a member of the public take a journey in the cab, endanger lives?????
Author:  Sussex [ Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:03 am ]
Post subject: 
sarahdeacon wrote:
Surely if all these cars are operating illegally, then there has to be concerns regarding passenger safety, if i am correct the role of the LEO, is not only hackney/private hire enforcement, but don't they have a duty to protect the public.

Their foremost duty is to protect the public.

Have you written to the head of licensing/chair of the licensing committee highlighting your concerns.

Invite them to a tour of the town during the evening/night.
Author:  grandad [ Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:14 am ]
Post subject: 
A mate of mine got a call yesterday morning to pick up some people from a large company and take them to BHX. Now this company also use Arrow cars who are based at EMA. My mate arrived on time only to be told that the customer had just left. Guess what in a car from Arrow (not booked).
He had another job for them in the afternoon. Turned up on time again and the customer had just left in yet another Arrow car (not booked).
He rang the secretary who booked the jobs to find out what was happening and she hadn't a clue but she then booked him for another trip to BHX as soon as he could get back. He was back again within 5 minutes and you have probably guessed the customers had been picked up by Arrow cars.
It is clear to me that Arrow cars are sitting some of their cars within the company carpark and waiting by the reception area and touting the customers. I think a call to the LO may be in order. :wink:
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
grandad wrote:
A mate of mine got a call yesterday morning to pick up some people from a large company and take them to BHX. Now this company also use Arrow cars who are based at EMA. My mate arrived on time only to be told that the customer had just left. Guess what in a car from Arrow (not booked).
He had another job for them in the afternoon. Turned up on time again and the customer had just left in yet another Arrow car (not booked).
He rang the secretary who booked the jobs to find out what was happening and she hadn't a clue but she then booked him for another trip to BHX as soon as he could get back. He was back again within 5 minutes and you have probably guessed the customers had been picked up by Arrow cars.
It is clear to me that Arrow cars are sitting some of their cars within the company carpark and waiting by the reception area and touting the customers. I think a call to the LO may be in order. :wink:


after two no-shows id have declined the 3rd booking, if asked why id explain....

and if it was account work id invoice for wasted journeys
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Licensing officers duristriction over out of town cars p
Sussex wrote:
sarahdeacon wrote:
Does anyone know what the licensing officers duristriction is over out of town cars plying for hire?

They have powers over out of town cars plying in the same way as they have over unlicensed cars plying.

However they have no powers to check the vehicles or the drivers.

In other words, in my opinion, they can only ask them to move on or undertake 'test purchase' prosecution operations.


another case for ONE national rule for all vehicles, then VOSA, Police or any LO could nick em on the spot
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