Taxi Driver Online :: View topic - New Fuel Protest By Hauliers

In spain last week I think it was about 0.90cents per litre, approx 65p per litre.

wouldnt care, but were the ones with the oil and we invaded Iraq for more!

Captain Cab

Theres a firm beside us, Stobarts, they have a base in France, they fill up there, do the english runs and dont spend a penny on fuel here, just to compete with the foreign truckers.

The fuel costs a fortune here and do we have a better roads system? do we have a better health system? are we better off in any way at all?

To be honest I don't have a lot of sympathy with them.

There's no doubt that haulage is a competitive market, and in any such market there will always be operators on the margin of profitability, and I suspect that the main impetus for all this comes from them.

If fuel duty for trucks was abolished (say) then I suspect that tonnage rates would be slashed and/or there would be more trucks in the market (and some freight currently going by rail would move onto the roads) and profitability would end up largely where it was before, but with more trucks clogging up the roads, after all it's not as if the high duty is leading to a dearth of them on the roads at present.

It reminds me a bit of our supposedly astronomical duty on alcohol, yet the country is awash with it, and the late nigh city streets evidence of its effects.

Also, although in my teenage years I was an 'up the workers' sort of guy, nowadays I just can't stomach this kind of bully boy trade union kind of stuff that we see from the hauliers at times, principally in the fuel blockades a few years ago.

just a few of points against you TDO

1 it is a competitive market because its an open market something some taxi drivers are trying to fight against, delimitation

2 because its open it is open to competion, rate cutting, which is what taxi drivers are afraid of

3 UK is the only country in europe where diesel is dearer than unleaded

4 you wouldnt get more trucks on the road, there is a shortage of drivers 80000 at the last count who would drive these extra trucks

5 rail is more expensive to move freight, which is also subsidised by the government

6 your taxi does aprox 40 miles to the gallon a fully freighted 44 tonner will be between 7 & 8 to the gallon

7 road haulage assosiation and unions distanced them selves from the last fuel protest they didnt want to get involved

8 foreign drivers arnt doing just one load they spend all week here doing uk work running on cheap fuel then return home

9 there is only a small minority of uk trucks going across the water its cheaper to get a eurpoean truck to do it

10 the protest is about high fuel duty it was said after the last protest if fuel went above a certain price per litre they would protest again

11 i am an ex truck driver left because of low pay and the then looming WTD which is now in, i have heard drivers saying they are going to be 5000 to 10000 pounds a year worse off because they cant work the hours to make a decent wage

12 if there is another protest i will be parking up my PHV borrow a truck and blockade some thing

oh yeah rates, truck around £1 to £1.10 a mile, taxi approx £1.30 a mile unlike taxis rates arnt fixed by any one

Author:	captain cab [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:	New Fuel Protest By Hauliers
New Fuel Protest By Hauliers Claiming it is driving them out of business, Hauliers in North Wales last night threatened to strike in protest at fuel tax. Company bosses are preparing to pull their vehicles off the road and give drivers a week's holiday to highlight their plight. They say that their businesses are being crippled by the gulf of difference between UK and European diesel prices. A litre costs just 50.54p in Luxembourg and 59p in Ireland whereas here it is 93.9p per litre. It is expected that many lorry drivers, farmers and taxi drivers will turn up at a public meeting at the Ruthin auction site tonight. The proposed action echoes the fuel protests of five years ago when, led by Brynie Williams, Stanlow oil terminal was blockaded and large parts of the UK ground to a halt. The meeting has been organised by haulier Dai Owen, 63, of JD Owen Transport, Caerwys, who is rallying support from both North and mid Wales. "There are many of us who are not happy with the price of fuel - farmers, hauliers, taxi operators and the general public," said Mr Owen. "It's a public meeting. We as hauliers can't pass on the extra costs any more. The customers can't accept it. We want a meeting to say if there is no reduction in this unfair tax we will have to withdraw our services." The hauliers want the UK government to reduce the tax on fuel or give them an essential user's rebate to balance the cost. In addition, they say that the 48-hour average working week imposed by the Road Transport Directive and 40mph limits on A roads are also causing problems. If you wish to attend, tonight's meeting starts at 8pm tonight, Ruthin livestock market, Denbigh Road, Ruthin.

Author:	Sussex [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:
Good luck to them. Last time I did quite well. I think mainly due to the fact that we use diesel, and those that used petrol couldn't get any. But something really needs to be done.

Author:	captain cab [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:
In spain last week I think it was about 0.90cents per litre, approx 65p per litre. wouldnt care, but were the ones with the oil and we invaded Iraq for more! Captain Cab

Author:	TDO [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:
To be honest I don't have a lot of sympathy with them. There's no doubt that haulage is a competitive market, and in any such market there will always be operators on the margin of profitability, and I suspect that the main impetus for all this comes from them. If fuel duty for trucks was abolished (say) then I suspect that tonnage rates would be slashed and/or there would be more trucks in the market (and some freight currently going by rail would move onto the roads) and profitability would end up largely where it was before, but with more trucks clogging up the roads, after all it's not as if the high duty is leading to a dearth of them on the roads at present. It reminds me a bit of our supposedly astronomical duty on alcohol, yet the country is awash with it, and the late nigh city streets evidence of its effects. Also, although in my teenage years I was an 'up the workers' sort of guy, nowadays I just can't stomach this kind of bully boy trade union kind of stuff that we see from the hauliers at times, principally in the fuel blockades a few years ago.

Author:	TDO [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:
captain cab wrote: In spain last week I think it was about 0.90cents per litre, approx 65p per litre. wouldnt care, but were the ones with the oil and we invaded Iraq for more! Captain Cab One thing I could never work out was the argument about foreign hauliers coming into the UK with loads and doing this cheaply on diesel bought on the continent. But surely the UK truckers can do the same thing in reverse?

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Author:	captain cab [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:
Theres a firm beside us, Stobarts, they have a base in France, they fill up there, do the english runs and dont spend a penny on fuel here, just to compete with the foreign truckers. The fuel costs a fortune here and do we have a better roads system? do we have a better health system? are we better off in any way at all? Sadly I think not. During the past 18 months to 2 years I think the price of fuel went up about 8.2%, our last fare increase was 8% to cover the increase, the customer pays ultimately. Captain Cab

Author:	TDO [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:
captain cab wrote: Theres a firm beside us, Stobarts, they have a base in France, they fill up there, do the english runs and dont spend a penny on fuel here, just to compete with the foreign truckers. Ah, good old Eddie Stobart, the truckers that are better dressed than many of the UK's cab drivers So as regards the filling up on the continent, and UK-based truckers that don't have a base abroad, I can't see how they are at any disadvantage as compared to truckers based on the continent as regards runs between the UK and the continent.

Author:	TDO [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:
captain cab wrote: The fuel costs a fortune here and do we have a better roads system? do we have a better health system? are we better off in any way at all? Yes, but I think the difference with many continental countries is that on the continent they have higher rates of direct taxation (ie income tax) and lower indirect taxes (eg VAT, fuel duty), so what we spend on fuel and alcohol etc we save on income tax. I think it was Mrs Thatcher who started this trend, by reducing income tax and increasing VAT, and Tony Blair has just continued or broadened this approach, hence the 'stealth tax' argument. Of course, Thatcher's intention was to allow people to have more freedom to do as they liked with their own money, because they coudn't escape income tax but they could decide what to spend their wages on, and in turn this would encourage people to save. But that hasn't worked either

Author:	jason cole [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:
errr....... knock-knock....... hello?????.......... Global Peak Oil is probably just around the corner (http://www.peakoil.net) - trying to maintain the status quo by means of protest will just not do. Try this for an introduction: http://www.postcarbon.org/DOCS/handouts/EndOfOilBooklet.pdf A money programme article from 2003 is here: http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... le8582.htm

Author:	Guest [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:
TDO wrote: To be honest I don't have a lot of sympathy with them. There's no doubt that haulage is a competitive market, and in any such market there will always be operators on the margin of profitability, and I suspect that the main impetus for all this comes from them. If fuel duty for trucks was abolished (say) then I suspect that tonnage rates would be slashed and/or there would be more trucks in the market (and some freight currently going by rail would move onto the roads) and profitability would end up largely where it was before, but with more trucks clogging up the roads, after all it's not as if the high duty is leading to a dearth of them on the roads at present. It reminds me a bit of our supposedly astronomical duty on alcohol, yet the country is awash with it, and the late nigh city streets evidence of its effects. Also, although in my teenage years I was an 'up the workers' sort of guy, nowadays I just can't stomach this kind of bully boy trade union kind of stuff that we see from the hauliers at times, principally in the fuel blockades a few years ago. Hi TDO, if I remember rightly wasn't the fuel duty scrapped for haulers and bus companies after the last fuel demo, the government said they could get their duty back every quarter, this was to stop the foreign guys from taking the English drivers work

Author:	TDO [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:
Err, I can't remember that, in fact if so then what is the protest all about? The Govt has certainly reigned in the increases in duty since the demos, and there may have been other help of some kind, but apart from that I don't think things have changed much.

Author:	captain cab [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:
I think the point is the governement win hands down, because the higher the price of fuel the more they earn in tax. Captain Cab

Author:	agabbycabbie [ Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:
TDO wrote: To be honest I don't have a lot of sympathy with them. There's no doubt that haulage is a competitive market, and in any such market there will always be operators on the margin of profitability, and I suspect that the main impetus for all this comes from them. If fuel duty for trucks was abolished (say) then I suspect that tonnage rates would be slashed and/or there would be more trucks in the market (and some freight currently going by rail would move onto the roads) and profitability would end up largely where it was before, but with more trucks clogging up the roads, after all it's not as if the high duty is leading to a dearth of them on the roads at present. It reminds me a bit of our supposedly astronomical duty on alcohol, yet the country is awash with it, and the late nigh city streets evidence of its effects. Also, although in my teenage years I was an 'up the workers' sort of guy, nowadays I just can't stomach this kind of bully boy trade union kind of stuff that we see from the hauliers at times, principally in the fuel blockades a few years ago. just a few of points against you TDO 1 it is a competitive market because its an open market something some taxi drivers are trying to fight against, delimitation 2 because its open it is open to competion, rate cutting, which is what taxi drivers are afraid of 3 UK is the only country in europe where diesel is dearer than unleaded 4 you wouldnt get more trucks on the road, there is a shortage of drivers 80000 at the last count who would drive these extra trucks 5 rail is more expensive to move freight, which is also subsidised by the government 6 your taxi does aprox 40 miles to the gallon a fully freighted 44 tonner will be between 7 & 8 to the gallon 7 road haulage assosiation and unions distanced them selves from the last fuel protest they didnt want to get involved 8 foreign drivers arnt doing just one load they spend all week here doing uk work running on cheap fuel then return home 9 there is only a small minority of uk trucks going across the water its cheaper to get a eurpoean truck to do it 10 the protest is about high fuel duty it was said after the last protest if fuel went above a certain price per litre they would protest again 11 i am an ex truck driver left because of low pay and the then looming WTD which is now in, i have heard drivers saying they are going to be 5000 to 10000 pounds a year worse off because they cant work the hours to make a decent wage 12 if there is another protest i will be parking up my PHV borrow a truck and blockade some thing oh yeah rates, truck around £1 to £1.10 a mile, taxi approx £1.30 a mile unlike taxis rates arnt fixed by any one

Author:	jason cole [ Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:
I sympathise with the hauliers on the issue of a non-level playing field across Europe. It would be more to the point for any protest to be blockading the ports - that's where the problem comes through. Looking at this you can see there is a more level playing field on petrol, but a marked difference in diesel. http://www.see-search.com/business/fuel ... europe.htm However the future for hauliers is definitely a grim one. More stuff on PO from US Congress: Republican Bartlett presents peak oil to congress: Windows media PDF

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Author:	TDO [ Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:
agabbycabbie wrote: just a few of points against you TDO Quote: 1 it is a competitive market because its an open market something some taxi drivers are trying to fight against, delimitation I'm not quite sure about the relevance of your point, and in any case it's just taxi plate holders that not subject to a competitive market, the market is journeymen drivers is as open as that for truck drivers. Quote: 2 because its open it is open to competion, rate cutting, which is what taxi drivers are afraid of I don't really agree with rate cutting in the taxi trade, because there are good reasons not to do so, but I can't really see why freight rates shouldn't be subject to competitive pricing. Quote: 3 UK is the only country in europe where diesel is dearer than unleaded I agree that fuel prices are high in the UK, as per my earlier posts. Quote: 4 you wouldnt get more trucks on the road, there is a shortage of drivers 80000 at the last count who would drive these extra trucks Well if the cost base of the industry was reduced by abolishing duty, then there would be extra money available to pay higher wages, which would attract more drivers. Alternatively, rates would drop to reflect the lower cost base, which is more likely. How it would pan out depends on other factors, but my point was that at the end of the day hauliers would end up no better off. By the way, where does the 80,000 figure come from and precisely what does it represent? Quote: 5 rail is more expensive to move freight, which is also subsidised by the government I think that's an oversimplification; surely decreasing haulage rates would attract more freight on the roads and increasing haulage rates makes rail more viable? Rail may be more expensive on average, but it's the freight being transported at the margins of profitability that matter, that's what might switch over if fuel duty was tampered with fundamentally. Quote: 6 your taxi does aprox 40 miles to the gallon a fully freighted 44 tonner will be between 7 & 8 to the gallon Yes, I knew trucks were thirsty, but I can't really see your point. Quote: 7 road haulage assosiation and unions distanced them selves from the last fuel protest they didnt want to get involved I'm sure the unions were involved in blockading the refineries, but I may be wrong. Quote: 8 foreign drivers arnt doing just one load they spend all week here doing uk work running on cheap fuel then return home Yes, and no one has answered my point in this regard - why don't UK truckers just do it the other way round? Quote: 9 there is only a small minority of uk trucks going across the water its cheaper to get a eurpoean truck to do it So if a continental truck can come across here with a load on cheap diesel, then why can't the UK truck do that in reverse, ie go to the continent, and fuel up while across there? Quote: 10 the protest is about high fuel duty it was said after the last protest if fuel went above a certain price per litre they would protest again Yes, I said it was about duty, but I think the protesters actually thought better of taking action when it did go above a certain price? I think some of them tried it, but it soon fizzled out. Quote: 11 i am an ex truck driver left because of low pay and the then looming WTD which is now in, i have heard drivers saying they are going to be 5000 to 10000 pounds a year worse off because they cant work the hours to make a decent wage Low wages in the industry are a labour market problem and won't be helped by lowereing fuel duty. If it was abolished, would Tesco (say) here you are lads, we've put the savings on fuel duty into your wage packet, or would they just carry on as before and pocket the profits for themselves? No prizes for that one. Indeed, if 80,000 people suddenly got HGV licenses then wages would plummet still further. Quote: 12 if there is another protest i will be parking up my PHV borrow a truck and blockade some thing Well you might have to if they try to hold the country to ransom and you can't fuel up. Quote: oh yeah rates, truck around £1 to £1.10 a mile, taxi approx £1.30 a mile unlike taxis rates arnt fixed by any one I don't get your point here either. A tin of beans is about 30p, but a holiday in Barbados can cost thousands. I'm being a bit facetious here, but the point is that you're not comparing like with like. For example, on the length of runs that trucks tend to do they will cover a lot more miles than a taxi will in a day. And they will have more chance of a return load, which is unusual with long-distance taxi work. But I suspect the chances of a repeat of the fuel blockades of a few years ago are very slim indeed.