Taxi Driver Online

OK Wharfy, I see what you mean now, you mean that policy on restricted numbers can't consider premiums as far as the legality goes, what I was meaning was that when the OFT/Govt are considering policy change then they will consider incomes.

I think we were at cross purposes to some extent.

On the subject of the judge in the Wirral case, I think your description of his as a trainee judge is a bit wide of the mark, Sir Christopher Bellamy is chairman of the Competition Appeals Tribunal and one of the top competition lawyers in the country as far as I know.

http://www.catribunal.org.uk/about/memb ... Category=1

Dusty

Can I start by saying that all of my posts are my own personal opinion based on my own experiences.

The case law involving un-met demand survey's is to cloudy for words, as no local authority is, as far as I understand, obligated to undertake un-met demand survey's at all, never mind regularly.

What I object to more than anything else is the attitude shown clearly against drivers who are only trying to provide for their families, who have possibly risked everything in order to raise the £30k for a plate. They have had to work dam hard to ensure their families future and Sussex Man wants to destroy them financially so that he can have one for free.

That article mocks the B&H H/C drivers, the writer revels in the fact that 19 more plates have been issued, Sussex Man applauds. What he is to stupid to realise is that these 19 have been issued a plate without paying a premium, the plates have been issued under exactly the same terms and conditions as all the other plates so there is nothing stopping those 19 selling those plates for £30k each, the net result more exploitation.

Plate numbers should be restricted but the local authorities should insist that the licenses should only be transferred between vehicles owned and operated by the licencee. When the licensee no longer requires the use of the plate that plate should be returned to the council for re-allocation and no licensee should be issued with more than one plate.

However, some local authorities allow the transfer of plates knowing that the plates are being exchanged for profit and so must allow current holders who have, with the knowledge of the local authority paid a premium, either proper compensation or the oppertunity the chance to sell on the plates at a reduced rate to a person who is fully aware that the plate is no longer transferable to another licensee.

Market forces demands are much more than availability, the vehicles must be safe the drivers must be safe. In order to achieve this the licensee must return a profit, people having to wait at peak times is a consequence of that.
In Gateshead we have the area where the nightclubs finish cleared by 3am, taking into account some people stopping off for the customary Kebab I would say the longest wait would be around 35mins. In comparison the P/H firm I used to work for ran up to 45mins late on pre-booked work over last weekend so an un-met demand survey would conclude that more vehicles are required to work through P/H offices doing pre-booked work. How would this be achieved following delimitation in areas where drivers like Suspect Man would add to the pre-booking delay whilst he shortened still the waiting time for the hailed or rank work.

I don't expect a response from this thread, as I have been told countless times some people just don't want to listen to reasoned approach or the truth as it rarely is the easier less complicated option.

B. Lucky

My posts are my own opinion and not that of the Transport and General Workers Union Cab Section nor the branch I represent.

B. Lucky

Perhaps your are right, the selling/transferring of plates should be banned.

Alas they are banned in Scotland, but drivers either rent out their plates, or fuddle up a transfer. Both of these are permitted by gutless councils.

Thus the only way to eradicate the selling of plates, is to be rid of the premium. In fully de-limited area, there is no premium. The power lays with the licensed driver, not the licensed vehicle. London is a good example of this.

Councils don't have a duty to survey, but if they don't, they will have no evidence to back up a restricted numbers policy in court, if challenged. I wish that no council surveyed demand, cos this would lead to all councils having to de-limit.

As I have said many times, those who have bought plates are not always licensed drivers, they are solicitors, accountants, firemen, ambalance men, Uncle Joe Cobbley etc etc. However what all those licensed drivers are, is queue jumpers. You may support them, I don't.

The article doesn't take the p*** out of B&H HC drivers. Does it applaud the 19 extra plates, well if it does, then have you a problem with lads who have waited 20 years + finally getting their plates?

They could sell their plates tommorrow, and they would be as bad as those who buy and sell, and who then ask the council for another free plate.

Hey I give up with you Suspect, your hatred for the H/C trade is so deep rooted if there ever was ever a move toward total deregulation you'd probably end up hating yourself.

Why don't you comment on some of the actual content of peoples postings instead of ignoring them in favour of asking yet more questions.

Do you want me to simplify the points I raised and re-write them in language you can understand?

B. Lucky

Just to take you to task on one of the claims you make.

You claim "In fully de-limited area, they is no premium. The power lays with the licensed driver, not the licensed vehicle."

Sorry but that statement is completely untrue. Gateshead has delimited, yet the saloon car plate premiums are at the same level they always have been.

B. Lucky

yes he is a top and eminent QC, BUT A qc ALL THE SAME

when I say trainee judge I should have said perhaps new or inexperienced judge, certainly in that role he was trying to find his feet, he soon found them with that ruling!

Mick,
Why do you do it? Why? we have explained the law in great detail and you go on again saying local authoritis should not allow it!

PREMIUMS DO NOT EXIST IN LAW, A LOCAL AUTHORITY CANNOT MAKE POLICY FOR PREMIUMS, NOTHING CAN STOP TRANSFER OF TAXI PLATES

you say we should all follow law then you print something that says we shouldnt.

Wharfie

bang on right they are not! unfortunatly you represent your union and give your opinions at council and the 2 positions are completely opposed!

Wharfie

that would be helpful mick!

What a disgusting lot, paying a load of money to avoid taking disabled people!

time they all went WAV.
wharfie

Yes Mick, call it what you want, I call it partial de-limitation, it's not a proper de-limitation, there is still a discriminatory element, hence the premium.

Presumably that's what Andy meant when he said 'FULLY de-limited'.

Dusty

How on earth does it mock HC drivers Mick? It doesn't even mention them directly.

Andy knows fine the position with the newly issued plates, indeed his tongue-in-cheek post in another thread also makes a serious point, namely that once people are in the door (and that includes PH as well as HC jockies) many of them are pleased to see it shut on other people, and change their viewpoint fundamentally.

Look at Mr Royden in the Wirral, for example. Looks like you're saying one rule for the T&G and another rule for everyone else Mick. Got his foot in the door, then objected when others were offered a plate, and bleated that his 'free' plate would become worthless. So he was objecting that his free plate couldn't be used to milk off other drivers.

Sheer hypocrisy.

Dusty

That argument Dusty, is bloody difficult to follow, surely you cannot have partial de-limitation.

however Mick, has also destroyed his argument fully, when he says you cannot de-limit because loans are owing, as totaly legal unimpresive that argument was.

As much as I think there should be all WAVs Local Authorities being what they are and being the fair person that I am , I would resist Any Local Authority pressure to go all WAV, UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT guidelines are formelly issued, purely beccause I can just see LAs watching thier backs going round condeming the very vehicles they have insisted upon and blaming government.

On the other hand we have those very foolish taxi drivers who have salloons that test Authorities patience by saying the punter passes WAVs to get to salloons, and authorities feel they have to act.

We are at present in a hybrid situation where nobody knows how to move
Taxi Owners await Local Authorites, who await government who are struggling, they know the dangers of having criterion that favours a single company, will recieve the condemnation of eurocrats and rendered illeagal, if they follow thier sympathies by having very wide criterion they sacrifice over 50% OF THE MARKET and the possibility of huge hue and cry in the major cities drivers who have invested £30,000 by buying equipment that the government insisted upon them having (a very different argument than those who voluntary paid premiums)

so we are stuck with no decision and no investment at all with all that entails!

Wharfie

I have had a look Dusty, but think you may have taken my remarks just a little out of context.

It does though explain the very detailed judgement obviously the Wirral case was picked out for him.

Either the gentleman bringing the Wirral case was very very poorly advised or he was so head strong that he ignored it completley, either way he was well and truly whipped, beffore being laughed out of his appeal.

the detail of the case though is so text book in status that it goes into detail how human rights are violated through licensing, for instance depriving a person of livelyhood through licensing Authorities holding up driver applications.

My authority are looking very carefully at it, 17 weeks for determining applications for people to work is indeed a travesty of justice.

Sir Christoper can sit as a high cort judge, though he is still as much a part timer, as a solicitor may be driving a private hire car, though his qualifications for so sitting is not questioned now, nor ever has been by me
AMEN

Wharfie