Taxi Driver Online

As explained above, they weren't an issue as such, but perhaps more of a debating point, but what I was trying to get across was that you seemed to be avoiding the question that I asked.

But at least you have now provided a little in the way of a reply to the point, although not directly addressing it.

Don't get me wrong GBC, I quite understand that the cost of living in London is high, and that you will clearly earn more having undertaken the KOL, and if you work unsocial and long hours you will earn more.

But I repeat my basic point: Despite the number of drivers, I suspect you are still capable of earning a lot more than any other taxi drivers in the UK.

If you don't want to address the point directly then that's your prerogative, but clearly we will draw our own conclusions from your silence.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

I'm rarely out by mid-afternoon GBC, and I'm also often not asleep by the time the real dayshift start

But only 9 hours tonight, you won't manage the half grand, surely

So how did you come to be posting on here before 11 pm?

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

So what do you mean by 'work' Mr GBC?

In my opinion it's a matter of principle, and you're either for or against it. To me it's like things such as the minimum wage, equality, anti-cartel legislation etc - you're either for or against it, and it's not a matter of it working in some areas and not in others.

As regards the us being only a minority of drivers, again I don't think it's a question of whether or not the 'trade' agrees with it - OPEC won't vote for a free market in oil!

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Interesting figures there Mr GBC, are you referring to owner drivers, journeymen drivers or both?

Frankly, I find the figures a bit hard to swallow - where I work now it could hardly be much easier to get a badge and plate, and it's not restricted, but I doubt if much more than half are part-time, and I doubt if any areas have the kind of preponderance of part-timers that you indicate.

As I always say, I think the amount of part-timers probably relates to how difficult it is to get a badge, and the easier it is, the more there will be.

As regards the relationship with restricted numbers, I doubt if there really is one, what restricted numbers tends to do is to pack the more drivers into each car, basically until every hour of the week is covered.

I started in the trade in a restricted area, and the car I drove had one-full timer and around 5 part-timers, and the owner was still bleating that he couldn't get enough drivers - he only drove himself when he couldn't get drivers!!

Obvioulsy I don't know Dufermline, but I simply don't believe that there were 80 full-timers before de-restriction (no part-timers?) and then 30 full-time and 130 part-timers? I don't doubt that there are that many part-timers, but they were very probably in the trade before anyhow, and only became an 'issue' after de-restriction.

I have to laugh at some in my own area - there aren't really that many part-time cars (although most drivers are part-time) but some of the owners bleat about the part-time cars, but part-time journeymean are welcomed with open arms!

I'd love to do a proper analysis of the Dunfermline trade, but getting exact details on part-time numbers and the like is nigh near impossible, and I'd be very interested in the source of yours.

Interesting was a contributed piece we ran last year from Dundee, which said that after de-restriction, although the number of taxis increased by a good bit, the amount of drivers' badges being issued barely moved - de-restriction just gave journeyman drivers the chance to run their own vehicle.

Also interesting is some of the OFT stuff, which said that in some cities that de-restricted the total PH and taxi numbers barely changed, although many PH moved from that sector to taxis - remember that in many provincial locations PH drivers meet the same standard as HC.

If there was such a sudden influx in Dunfermline (and thus they hardly have to pass the KOL to get a badge) then that begs the question why they weren't in the trade in the past - they most probably were, but are just an issue now!!

I'll bet my bottom dollar there were load of part-timers in the Dunfermline trade before de-restriction.

Funny though, your narrative on the Dunfermline looks suspiciously like something I've heard before, where did you get it from exactly.

It kind of goes like, de-restrict, lots of part-timers arrive, full-timers disappear, then part-timers dissapear, and in the end there's less service overall than before!

Even if the part-timers get fed up, presumably there will always be other coming in, even if they get fed up as well?

I can't be bothered looking back now, but it sounds suspicioulsly like some of the Scottish Taxi Fed stuff, mixed with a bit of what Mr Kavanagh said at the Trans Comm meeting.

Well, we have first hand experience of de-restriction with Nidge and GA here, and they've never related a tale like that - I wonder why?

If you haven't already, you might like to have a look at our Myth and Reality document Mr GBC, which addresses many of the arguments against de-restriction, and concludes that they're mostly myths.

An interesting point of this kind is that there would be no late-night service. But other defenders of restrictions say that there would only be part-timers and they would only work at such times! But it seems that most of this stuff is just made up, and the contradictory nature of the arguments seems to confirm this.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Some of the numbers bandied about in the trade are often the most incredible heap of crap imaginable, and if you read Myth and Reality you'll get a flavour of what I'm saying.

For example, from what I know about what went on in Scotland, your 80 down to 30 figure might well be 80 people controlling the plates, 50 of whom were sitting on their ar$e. Numbers were de-restricted, and since the 50 plate holders only controlled the plates because later drivers couldn't get their own, they dissapeared, and so they should.

So only the 30 actually working were left, and other drivers got their own vehicle.

That might sound a bit far-fetched, but it was claimed that most taxi plate holders in Dundee had nothing to do with the trade, but if the plug was pulled then clearly they would disappear.

So a couple of hundred people 'leave' the trade, but good riddance

As for the greater waiting times for passengers at night, again there might be many relevant factors such as licensing hours and fares or lack thereof(you can't forget T3!) but I think a major factor is the increasing lawlessness in city centres, which clearly puts drivers off and thus increases waiting times for customers.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

From my experience these people have always been in the trade, be it in restricted or un-restricted areas.

What I can't make out is why loads of people would be working in the trade, then all of a sudden no-one would be working in the trade.

Methinks it has nothing to do with restrictions, more to do with the economic climate. In other words those drivers don't work because they don't need too.

But if I was a plate-holder in an area that de-limited, I would pray for a Dumfernline. Loads of work and not many vehicles seems like a good senario for a driver.

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IDFIMH

Oh thats easy Mr TDO, sometimes its so quiet its not really worth pushing up BP's profit.

As for your other points about Dunfermline, contact The Dunfermline Press group / or Fife Council for all facts and figures, again I have never claimed to hold the answer to what went on there, only what the drivers tell me when travelling in their vehicles and I can't see any reason for them to lie to me.

I notice you and sussex are trying to make lots of educated guess's using your knowledge of other areas and de-regulation, but me thinks, until we are in posession of the facts and figures either from Fife Council or a driver or two from that particular area we should avoid waffling on to the extent we loose track of the original quote.

To recap, i said i believed restriction MAY work in some but not all, I used Dunfermline as my example, it would appear from the original list that over a third of UK licensing authorities still favour some form of restriction, so surely these figures speak for themselves?

As for half a grand, I can happily tell you i have NEVER taken that in 19 years, perhaps if i worked a 36.hr shift then maybe jusy maybe.

Now as for my 'silence', its a basic human right to remain silent and not incriminate yourself, but i'll come to a deal on this one, PM your earnings to me and i'll return the favour!
Then you can sleep easier during the night or day knowing what a Licesed London Driver (who works hard) has the potential to earn.

And finally, not that it has anything to do with you, me and her indoors get on great, working nights is not a bar to relationships, in fact since i started nights over a decade ago, she's had more spending money, and thats one happy her.

No obviously you don't. I look forward to your in depth analysis of the Dunfermline area, i wait with baited breath. Fife council licensing would be your contact.

As for my reply sounding like something you've heard before, maybe another de-restricted area which did not work???

Kavanagh? nope don't know him, Bob ODDY's our man.

The Scottish federation, now i have heard of them, they destroyed the Death Star with an X wing.

Why would i want to post my earnings on a public forum??

This comes from a man (or woman) who just hours ago refused to reveal if they are or are not a licensed driver, or what area they ply for hire. (or private hire??)

I seem to recall it went along the lines of a public forum, protecting our real ID, we get enough grief etc

Well my offer from my previous posting still stands, send me a message or give me your e-mail and i'll gladly respond in private.

'In my opinion'. 'To me' 'you're either for it or agaist it'

Some would suspect you are opinionated.

Fortunatly in this wonderful democracy in which we live, we are all allowed views and opinions and those with the loudest voice, or strongest views don't always get their way.

As for being for or against things it is possible to have a balanced approach which is neither a strong for or against, moderation is the word.

Now do you think we might get more than a couple of dozen drivers to subscibe on this forum if you did'nt attack and berate everything that was put on here, and maybe just accept that it is'nt the 'TDO opinion' forum.

Have you ever been proved wrong on any issue?

Emm, they don't work in a small Scottish town?

Almost local, but Fife is a big area and Im in the north east zone, and have only been to Dunfermilne once in the last half dozen years and I was unlucky to get that job

Sorry i cant provide much info but in my zone there are certainly loads of parttime drivers and the council throw around badges like confetti. The local taxi companies are always advertising for parttime drivers and they just cant get enough of them - i would say full-timers are in the minority, but the full timers dont have any problem taking them on and there arint really any part time cars as such.

But I was interested to see Dunfermilne mentioned on here, because we had a huge hoo had here when the council proposed an 8 year age limmit last year. We have saloons, not black cabs.

Anyway some of our cars are bad enough but apparently the worst of the lot are in dunfermilne, and that was one of the main reasons for the age rule.

AS I said in my rural area partimers can run a car if they want but don't. probably because there just isnt the work, but in Dufermline which has clubs and the like Im not surprised if there are lots of parttime cars since its so easy to run one and get a badge.

So maybe if the council had had the rule in the first place there would be less parttimers but they seem to have got the cart before the horse.

Oh and its Monday which is my day off, so no doubt we shall speak later, always a pleasure never a pain...................

I thought Dunfermilne was big

Do you know when it was uncapped?

A punter just told me recently, and to be honest i thought he was talking crap.

St Andrews, Crail, Pitenweem, well i don't know what your workloads are like, but you certainly ply in an area of outstanding beauty!

Its still my intention to retire to Anstruther, gorgeous!