Taxi Driver Online

Well i suppose its 'big' in comparison with St Andrews, but to London???

As for punters talking crap, well thats another thread altogether, read some more of the entries on this forum (all subjects) it becomes quickly apparant its not just customers . . .

'Ken whit i mean neebs.!

I can't recall that GBC, except perhaps in jest - I was only joking about the train driver

My circumstances have been the same for several years:

- HC in unrestricted saloon area
- Small town
- Don't hire jockies (unlike most others)
- Independent, and almost 100% rank work.
- Mainly nights
- Don't work mega-hours, but always work weekends
- IE aim is to make most in least hours possible

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Absolutely, GBC, I never expected you to, even though you use a pseudonym.

I wouldn't really be that nosey

What I actually said was

Despite the number of drivers, I suspect you are still capable of earning a lot more than any other taxi drivers in the UK

That wasn't actually asking you what you earned - the important word is 'capable', thus implying that if you provided a figure then it wouldn't necessarily be your own earnings.

The way I was thinking is that, while many people probably think that drivers earn similar sums, obviously this is not the case, and I suspect, for example, that some full time drivers in my manor probably earn about a third of what the higher earners make.

So I thought you might address my point by saying something like "Some can earn £xx,000, but most earn a lot less".

I'm quite happy if you don't want to say anymore, but what I don't like is when people seem to be avoiding the question, and this often results in endless threads that get nowhere.

For example, I'd prefer 'fack off and mind your own business'

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Hmm...I think you're 'attack and berate' accusation is a bit strong GBC, I just debate the issues like anyone else.

If I do this a bit strongly at times then this is generally in response to verbal abuse or suchlike, but I don't do this gratuitously and never in excess of what I've received, and usually less.

You may not be aware, but several of us have been debating these issues on several forums for a few years, and things have gotten very heated at times, so I would take some of the more 'robust' messages with a pinch of salt.

But I don't think I do anything other than forums of this type were designed for, namely debate and discussion, and I try not to abuse or ridicule people etc.

But if you could give me a specific example then that might clarify what you mean.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Can't remember

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Seriously though, I'm not often wrong, because I make sure that any facts I state are correct, or if I'm not sure then I present any facts accordingly.

As for my OPINIONS, well opinions by definition can't be right or wrong.

So clearly I think I'm always 'right' in my opinions, while others such as the Angel clearly think I'm 'wrong'.

But like everyone I do change my opinions occassionaly

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Perhaps, but what I was trying to make clear with such words was that these were just my own views, and accordingly weren't the definitive answer.

Thus the opposite of the quality that you attribute to me?

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

I can't disagree GBC, but what I mean't about restricted numbers being a point of principle etc was that it's not really the kind of thing where you can have a half way house.

For example, as regards something like slavery, clearly some supported it and others didn't, but when society made up its mind that it was wrong then clearly it had to go, and it wasn't the type of thing that was good for some areas and bad for others.

To take a more modern and less radical example, the minimum wage clearly had many supporters (mainly on the left) and detractors (mainly on the right), but when the democratic system decided that the UK should have one, it wasn't the sort of thing that could be decided by LAs, for example.

To me restricted numbers is a similar thing - it has no merit, and thus it won't 'work' in some areas and not others.

For example, I think it's wrong in principle that someone can get a plate for nothing and later another person has to buy that plate for tens of thousands because they can't get one on similar terms.

And the point is that this can't be 'right' in one area and not in another.

Of course, others will disagree with me, both about the premium issue and about my view of restricted numbers as a matter of principle, but as you say we are all entitled to our views.

Indeed, that's why we set up the site, and I'd like to think that it was pro-free speech and democracy, and hope that I personally don't detract from that too much

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Another point in this regard is that the site was never set up to win any popularity competitions, since if that had been the aim then we would have done the usual vested interest stuff (like the mainstream trade mags) rather than challenging it (in particular re restricted numbers).

In fact it's probably the site's stance on restricted numbers that has cost us a lot of members, but it was never set up to suck up to people.

On the other hand, several forums have come and gone and some never really get going, so even with the modest number of contributors this site is probably the most successful of its kind.

Please note that after the site had been going for a year and the second web subscription was due I told the others involved with the site that I wouldn't contribute any money (I've never spent a penny on the site -just lots of time ) and that it would only continue if they wanted to put the cash up, and I wouldn't mind if it was consigned to that great website graveyard in the sky!

So the site was never set up to suck up to people and to compromise our views to that end, and even more so since I wouldn't be crying myself to sleep at night if the site shut down

But the site was set up to air the issues, and if people don't want to contribute then that's their business, but to that extent it's not my fault if the forum looks like a TDO opinion forum.

In fact I go through spells when I get fed up and don't post for weeks, so it might turn into the GBC opinion forum

But anyone who wants to contribute their tuppenceworth or even their 64,000 dollars worth then they're more than welcome to - that's why we spent time and money setting the thing up

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

I don't know any LAs that have stats on part-time drivers and the like, so I doubt if Fife Council are any different.

All LAs normally have are total vehicle and driver numbers, which tell us nothing - for example, a badge holder could be working a hundred hours a week or none at all.

In some areas most drivers are probably part-time, and in others predominatly full-time, but you can't tell that from the figures.

And the press won't know any more either.

As far as I see it the only way to know the trade properly is to be working in it or closely involved in some way, such as a controller.

I suspect that there may be some truth in the figures you've been given, but probalby highly spun - for example, are you saying that there were 130 part-timers after de-restriction but none before? I suspect not, and if it was that easy to get a badge in Dunfermline then they were probalby in the trade before.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

As I alluded to above, I don't think we'd ever get the correct figures from either source.

For example, you may well have heard that following a de-limitation that the number of taxis has increased by 50%, say.

But do you ever hear that, for example, the numer of drivers has only increased by 10% and that the increase in taxis is just due to jockies taking the opportunity to run their own vehicle?

For example, taxis increase from 1,000 to 2,000, which you could well read about, but drivers increase from 2,000 to 2,200. Thus although the implication is the job count for each driver has halved, the truth is less dramatic.

By the same token, suppose the PCO organised a lottery of the 20,000 current plate holders in London - even numbers keep the plate, odd numbers are forfeited. So you end up with 10,000 cabs and 25,000 drivers.

But you could probably accomodate all London drivers in the smaller number of cabs, so as regards job counts and takings etc, nothing changes. But those who control the plates can have their pound of flesh from those who don't.

Which is effectively how restricted numbers often works. By the same token, if numbers were unrestricted again, the number of taxis would double but again the number of drivers, takings, jobs etc would remain unchanged.

A real life example is Dublin, where I've read dozens of academic papers, govt reports, court cases, newspaper articles etc, and what is clear is that the number of taxis have increased several fold since de-limitation.

But the same dozens of documents simply don't mention driver numbers, so the real truth about the increase in taxi supply isn't clear.

But I did once see a figure for driver numbers before de-limitation, which suggested that there were around SIX drivers per taxi.

So if each driver got his own car, and worked the same hours, then each driver would be equally busy etc, despite the number of taxis multiplying by six!

Of course, it's not as straightforward as that, but it's a lot more complex than many in the trade like the public and politicians to believe.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Whatever the figures are, I don't think that that per se justifies restrictions, surely?

But if you want to look at it that way then two thirds don't favour restrictions, so that makes them in the wrong??

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Well I'm very happy for you, but you did comment on people only working days, but if you have a young family, say, the permanent nights aren't really conducive to family life.

Horses for courses.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

I've posted this yesterday, but its probably been lost as I'm only just getting use to the site. But the reason I came on the site was that you was slagging off mark Royden from Wirral. When Wirral delimited about 60 drivers decided to oppose the decision. We formed a co-op called COAD (cab drivers against delimitation) however the legal advice we was given was that an individual had to be named as the litigant. however that made the individual responsible for all costs. Mark was the only one who would put his name forward. the T&G had nothing to do with the action, but with the unions activists used to organising, they took over the running of the action. Hope that clears that up. PS liverpool re-regulated in 1983 not 93 it might seem a petty point but the difference was that the delimitation and the reversal was pre-Transport Act

I don't think the Scottish aspect is relevant, since as far as I know the regulatory framework there is largely similar to England and Wales, but of course any information to the contrary would be useful. Licensing wise, some English locations are probably more similar to Scottish locations than other English locations - basically it's all down to the rules set locally, whether under the Scottish or English legislation.

As regards smallness or otherwise, as far as I can gather Mansfield is of a similar size to Dunfermline, so is a good comparator.

Gateshead is a bit bigger but in the final analysis it's the laws of economics that decide things, and I doubt if they really vary according to whether it's Dunfermline at 40-50,000 (?) or Gateshead at nearer 200,000.

As an analogy, I doubt if barmaids in Mansfield are any more likely to be part-timers than in Gateshead, since the economics are similar, and employment laws are the same.

However, in the taxi trade part-timers may be more prevalent in Dunfermline than in Brighton (say) because it's easy to get a badge in the former, but a bit more difficult in the latter - but it's the regulatory barrier that's important, not the size of the town or city.

So coming back to the restricted numbers, it's probable that part-timeism(!) has more to do with the light touch regulation rather than actual restricted numbers.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk