Taxi Driver Online

The council didn't want any extra plates to come on stream, hence their resistence to the licence applications before them. So much so that they went to court to extend the decision time to allow the Jacob report to be published.

Given their obvious stalling tactic, did City of Edinburgh Council know beforehand what the result of the report was going to be? Why else would it major so prominently in their case to defer decision on the applications before them?

Did the council cut a deal with Jacob to come up with precisely the report they wanted?

Anyone else know whether Jacob has cut similar deals elsewhere in the country? Do they have a track record of this?

Does anyone know if any "brown envelopes" were involved? Any hint of impropriety? Does anyone know who in the council would be responsible for this, if there were?

We also know that a number of individuals are on the "interested party's list". Incidentally something which is not provided for in Law.

Can anyone on this list tell us whether they completed an application form and handed over their deposit. If so, how much did they pay? Do they believe they've actually applied for a licence or just paid the money to be on the list? Remember the council claim that the only applications before them are the recent licence applications, not the contents of the list. If this were true, then those on the "list" would have no priority when licences were issued.

The situation is clearly a mess, of the council's making. Answers to these questions would help unravel the mystery.

I wouldn't be so cock sure that restrictions will remain in your manor, or for that matter, anyone else's. Have a read of the Dublin court case, and see what one eminent judge says about taxi quotas in relation to Euro law.

And don't be surprised if that doesn't come up in a court case down here within the next six months.

And if that goes all the way, as it could well do, then that's the end of taxi quotas in Edinburgh. And the iffy councillors will have to lump it.

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IDFIMH

Despite what you "outsiders" might think, there is a democratic process in Edinburgh, and the people who run the trade here DO listen to those who invest in the trade, the differance on this forum is that it is just people and three in particular who seem to think because they "say so" everything should change to suit them, of course, mostly it's because they have been in trouble with the authority here, and it certainly doesnt make their case valid. We have heard Jim Taylors claim of "brown envelopes" for so long now that it has become a statement of ridicule when someone is refering to him, and to claim,"jim" you were backstabbed re: cabforce, is just ridiculous, the fact of the matter is, YOU WOULDN'T LISTEN, time and again you guys have been advised that the answer lies in negotiation not confrontation, will you listen?, I doubt it, to that end you won't progess one inch. There are things to "achieve" join with the "list", even, search for the guys that want to "delimit" (theres more than even YOU lot think),but don't waste your time here with people that , Lie, smear, twist, and use YOU to satisfy their own sad aspirations, YOU'LL MAKE FRIENDS WITH THESE DEVILS AT YOUR PERIL

Since those in the know can hack into the Pentagon's system, I think everyone assumed that reading the PMs was not outwith the realms of possibility, but obviously as low end users it would perhaps imply an element of malice if we were to have investigate the possibility. Therefore we'll leave that to you.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Do you honestly think that these councillors are not on the take in one form or another? Have you had a look at www.edinburghsucks.com website?

You don't seriously believe, all joking aside, that the Jacobs report is factual with all these Ph running around?

What's more if you doubled the amount of plates in Edinburgh tomorrow it wouldn't increase supply. Work it out? One cab with two drivers is the same as two cabs with one driver.


The only one to lose out would be the plate holders they would lose there plate value and wouldn't be able to charge the same for rentals because of the competition.


Strictly speaking Edinburgh Council should just put in quality controls and let everyone who wants a plate have one.

Edinburgh is going to fall just like everywhere else it's only a matter of time. We are just helping it along.

BTW negotiation is when both parties have big sticks and can do each other damage. It's then better to talk for all concerned and strike a bargain, pardon the pun.

The HCLLG goes cap in hand to the council and the only thing they are interested in is the Plate value and having a healthy supply of drivers coming through to fill their coffers. The HCLLG wouldn't know a negotiation if it jumped up and bit them on the arse.

Mark Greenhalgh wants his advertising and a hike in licence plates so he can make profit lining up more saps to by plates through rentals going up due to the scarcity of shifts and the over supply of drivers.

Kieth Bell wants to be Councillor Bell, Christ this man shopped a guy to the cab inspector for changing the spacing on his Private number plate and got a smack in the mouth for the privilege.

Mr Muldoune wants to stick any unmet demand on buses and his plate for his pension.


And god only knows what the rest are up to.

Earth to RealCabforceforum, earth to realCabforceform come in RealCabforceform, are you receiving me over.

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All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.
George Orwell, "Animal Farm"

I'm always a bit sceptical about 'brown envelopes' suggestions, particuarly where it involves the independent consultants.

I think the more likely explanation is that the SUD concpet has been defined pretty narrowly thus to that extent very little of it is ever likely to be found, anywhere. After all, late nights are effectively ignored, and at other times taxis can be very busy (and thus profitable, at least for plate holders) without there being huge and enduring queues at ranks, which would necessitate the issuing of new plates.

Also, as the market has grown (as it generally has), then any SUD would be alleviated by having more double shifted cars (which obviously benefits the owners) and of course people won't stand at ranks forever and instead phone for PH (or secure them illegally) thus instead of growth in demand being manifested in taxi SUD it ends up in another market, namely PH.

Thus when the surveyors periodically come along the SUD has effectively disappeared elsewhere.

I think the problem with the surveyors is that they don't really know how the market works, thus they are no different from councillors, civil servants, academics and the MPs who set the system up in the first place.

I have no doubt that there are isolated cases of brown envelopes in the UK, but more generally the problem is a lack of understanding of the market and 'regulatory capture' ie it's easier for councillors and LOs to keep the vested interests happy, rather than consider the wider interests. An LO, for example, is likely to be on the receiving end of a lot of flak if he is insturmental in delimiting, whereas he's unlikely to endear himself to anyone very much because of it - no doubt some drivers would be pleased, but this would be far outweighed by the negativity from others.

Thus the survey methodology effectively endorses the status quo numbers wise, and the status quo is always easier to maintain as regards the councillors and local authority personnel involved in the regulating.

There may be back scratching, nepotism and suchlike, but I doubt if there are actually many brown envelopes in the UK, but I could be wrong.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

That's a cracker realcabforceforum.

Democratic process? There isn't a councillor in Edinburgh who was elected by more than one in six of their electorate. That's democratic?

The people who run the trade DO listen? Really? There isn't a single "representative" or Councillor who solicits opinions from the trade, or reports back to them. Reality is they are having an incestuous debate over cosy cups of tea, deciding what they want, when they want and at whose expense. Proof is the inveterate [edited by admin] which has been dump on the trade - everything from attempts to bring in uniforms, bronze coin tariffs, dumping Fairways .... the list is too long to post here.

Brown envelopes? fed up hearing about them? More soon, not here, not just now.

I wouldn't listen? To what? To the mandarins? They didn't say anything to me. Cos they don't say anything period? To the Council? The Council which was so busy battering the trade to sit down and talk reasonably. Well, whatever the pillocks think, at least I put the Council on the back foot. Caused them to stop and think. More about this later too.

Friends with devils? You've read too many comics markie baby. Oops!

Like I recall getting a fone call from Greengage asking me to "represent" the credit Union on the TLG? What a ruse that was. Come on board and shut up. Join the clique, get ahead. Not for me. But I do another two who did it. At least I have honour. I couldn't be bought. That really must frighten you markie babes.

It's not me who is holding back the trade. It's all those who are ripping off drivers with high rentals. Who are pushing plate values up to justify them. Tragedy is, none of the clique understand the first thing about operating in a free market. But the OFT does. So does the European equivalent.

Derestricted numbers are coming. Sensible people are thinking how best to implement it to avoid a Dublin. Thinking about breaking the other barriers of vehicle types, servicing costs, competing against private hire etc.

Then there's RCFF and his ilk. Can't think about the argument for thinking about how he's gonna protect his vested interest. Let me tell him not to bother, it's going down the swanney anyway.

As I have said before, plate "values" are unsustainable. They don't exist in London, why should they exist in Edinburgh?

Edinburgh Council, run by the lab technician, is going to have to find another way to control the trade. I doubt they have the wit to do it.

I give it six months.

The matter was raised and wrongly commented on. I merely pointed out that it was a straightforward matter for anyone with administrator privileges on this forum to read PMs. No hacking and not beyond the capabilities of anyone with reasonable intelligence, but obviously beyond the ken of Ali T who spouts the blurb about "only one vulnerability."
Once he learns to communicate above primary school level, he may yet understand.

Did some one say brown envelopes ??

Whilst not strictly taxi business - the following it does apparently highlight what is reportedly going on at Edinburgh council !!!

[See link in next post]

hmmm, try this one

http://news.scotsman.com/archive.cfm?id=1968802005

Your right Mike, it has absolutely nothing to do with Taxis, and as usual it is being turned into a debate about the CEC, but it just shows you how sensitive Councils and business can be when theres even a slight whiff of wrong doing, the penalties are simply to high.

But there hugely complicated issues Mike, every council in the land has these problems, it's just the way it is.

[code]Mack wrote

[quote]But there hugely complicated issues Mike,[/quote]

Not sure it's hugely complicated - it has been reported you just give the right person enough money and the job/plate/whatever is yours.

Seems simple enough ! [/code]

Mike, you show your ignorance of the way this Country is run, do you think it's as simple as that, just get a brown envelope and the world is your oyster, Grow up.

Do you know, it's no wonder everythings going tits up for the Taxi trade in Edinburgh, and I mean the hackney carriage trade, not the PH.

You cannot forget your differences and concentrate on the core issues that will be/are affecting us.

There is no known organisation to represent us apart from Cabforce, if it still exists and even if it does it seemed more of a political lobby group.

But if we dont organise ourselves into some sort of group and work with the Council whoever and whatever that will be in the future, we will fail to meet the challenges that face us.

More like errant schoolchildren.

Er, no! It doesn't have to be the way it is.

The reason the issues are so many, and so complicated is entirely down to serial mismanagement by local authorities. Their raison d'etre is about control. Over matters they can't and don't fully understand.

Simple things like market economics. Small business self-determination. Freedom to operate one's business in a free and unfettered market. freedom from the contraints of powerbrokerswhose only interest is the buck in their pocket. Freedom from exploitation.

No, it doesn't have to be the way it is. And it won't be ad infinitum. Because powerful forces for change are washing over our trade from Europe downwards. It's just that councils, and the clique controlling them, don't have the wit or intelligence to realise it.