Taxi Driver Online

I can't get too enthused about plate "values".

If someone wants to send their hard earned redundancy on a taxi plate, on the say so of an alleged pal who boasts of the huge earnings he's making (impressing who precisely?) and without seeking proper financial advice from properly qualified professionals, then hell mend them.

A taxi I worked on was sold to a 48 year old woman who wanted to add it to her pension portfolio. Seems someone she worked with, whose husband was a cabby, told her it was a good investmen. A fool and her money ....

But, if the transfer of plates is being managed by vested interests, and they are driving up plate prices because they profit from doing so, and rentals are hiked as a consequence, and I'm struggling to make my rental, then I've got to stay - STOP.

It's time for drivers, those who are at the sharp end, who actually do the grafting in our trade to sieze control.

Isn't the sad thing that we are effectively fighting the same labour disputes our ancestors fought in the last century. And, isn't the paradox that, this time, we're fighting against the very people who were put in place in the previous struggle to represent those struggling against the forces of repression.

Yes, the Labour Party. Who are supposed to understand workers rights. Who were founded to represent them. And who have now gone tame, power corrupting their principles.

There's nothing worse than those engaged in the struggle being bought. Who desert the cause, their moral zeal sated by a personal advantage gained. Ah, but that's another tale ....

As I said, the Wirral case dealt with the issue comprehensively - it's worth a read if you haven't already.

I think the problem that the law has with the property argument is that the value is based entirely on the closed market and that this in turn results from a policy decision of local government that could be reversed at any time. The view taken (which I don't entirely agree with) is that anyone investing huge sums is deemed to know that to that extent it's a risk. And if they got the plate for nothing (like Royden in the Wirral case) then if the plug's pulled then they've lost nothing.

But the judge in the Wirral case explains it a lot more clearly than I can, so it's worth a read.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

I could tell you how much in plate values has been wiped off the total amount since the OFT report was published but it would only be an educated guess.

There may be others who are equally qualified that might be prepared to has at a guess at the total amount that has been wiped off plate values since the OFT report was published?

Having said that, there is not a person in this land who could make such a qualified guess if they weren't in possession of the information of just how many councils have actually delimited since the OFT report was published. The only way they could be in possession of that information is if they had personal knowledge of every council that has actually delimited.

I have yet to come across anyone in the Taxi trade who has applied themselves in the way I and this website has done in gathering the information as to which council is doing what? To that extent perhaps we on TDO are better placed than most to judge the losses accrued by those councils who have de restricted numbers.

There are 48 councils, which have chosen to lift numbers control, and because of this website everyone is in a position to make an educated guess as to how much has been wiped off the national value of plates.

All the relevant information is listed on this site, there are three or four updates which have yet to be made but otherwise the information is up to date and freely available to all.

Regards

JD

Jacobs stats.

Video Rank surveys consisted of 142 hours from 12 taxi ranks. = An average of 11.8 hours per rank. This equates to an average of less than half a day's survey. Only two ranks were surveyed until 0400 the following day and only two surveyed up to 0200 the following day.

Jacobs said.

During the course of discussion with the Trade offers were made regarding access to the radio company offices to allow extraction of data about how their fleets operated, but these offers were not considered necessary.


3.4 Issues of Other Demand and Seasonal Variation.

Early reviews of the Edinburgh taxi operation showed that hailing was an important part of the way in which passengers obtained taxis. The idea of observing hailing demand by use of a taxi with its light on was considered. The trade explained that this idea would not produce useful information since people would not tend to flag any vehicle which they saw already had people inside. Later discussion with the trade also identified that estimation of such demand would be very difficult since many drivers did not seek business with their ‘for hire’ lights on for security reasons. The trade also provided us with suggestions of the principal areas for hailing, whilst the video surveys also provided us with evidence of people hailing taxis within sight of the principal stances.

Several attempts were made to document the level of demand provided to the taxi trade by education contracts. In a number of cases, few vehicles were observed at stances during the time when education contracts would be undertaken. However, no detail of the level of education contracts was provided by the Education department. The issue of seasonal demand was approached in two ways. Firstly, shopping centres were approached to provide footfall data from their entrances. Three centres were approached, one of which had no such information available and the other two failed to provide data.

Secondly, the Tourist Information Service was asked for data on tourist numbers through the year. The only information provided related to the Festival period. The Festival and Fringe sell 2.5 million tickets during the three weeks (14 August to 4 September this year). Temporary stances and traffic management arrangements apply during this time. In particular, the trade advised us of the temporary stance in Market Street which they found to be very effective in providing service to Waverley Station.

Failed

1. Jacobs intentionally failed to Measure demand of street hailing. WHY?

It is unclear why Jacobs intentionally made the conscious decision to disregard street hailing observations? The taxi trade suggested this observation was not necessary but it must be pointed out that it wasn't the Taxi trade that was conducting the survey, so why did Jacobs fall into line with what the vested interest of the Taxi trade wanted?

The two obvious reasons that instantly stand out as to why street hailing was not observed by Jacobs is that of cost and convenience. In order to be accurate street-hailing observation is a costly exercise, substantial manpower is needed covering many locations both inside and outside the city centre. If street hailing observations were undertaken correctly on a broad scale as was suggested by Lord Woolf in the Sawyer case then the tender price submitted by Jacob's for the whole survey would have been eaten up in this one exercise.

It was convenient for Jacobs that they fond a way out of observing street hailing because to do it properly would have placed a drain on resources, which in turn would have meant a profit loss, instead of a profit gain.

2. Jacobs failed to ascertain the quantity of education contracts awarded directly to individual Hackney carriage operators, or indirectly through one of the three main Radio Companies? Jacobs state in their report that they tried several times to obtain the information from the local Education Authority, however, Jacob's could at least have obtained part of that information from the three main Radio companies who have information in respect of their own administered Education contracts.

3. Jacobs failed to measure demand of the weekly "quantity" of Radio work undertaken by the three main hackney carriage radio companies. Jacob's were offered the facilities and data of each radio company but for some reason they chose not to avail themselves of this facility, which in truth is the only reliable yardstick of measuring demand.

Radio bookings are the only reliable, documented, quantitative evidence of demand that could be relied upon as being accurate. Therefore Radio bookings should have been the first set of data figures examined by jacobs because it offered factual documented booking evidence and did not rely on guesswork.

Jacob's fixation with rank observation's lead to inaccurate input of data based entirely on guesswork. Their pivotal base for measuring demand was centred on Taxi rank observations and every other form of public hire was estimated according to what transpired at these Taxi ranks. This lead to the grossly inaccurate figures being submitted in section 5.6 of the report, which stated.

There is a very high level of hailing, with the proportion of work gained from hailing rising at night. With 80% of the taxis available on three telephone / radio networks, the fleet is readily available to most of the population of Edinburgh. The public attitude survey suggested that demand was made up of 32% by stance, 60% by hailing and 8% by phone, the latter amount appearing to be rather low. Taking the 31,000 vehicle and 53,000 passenger trips in a typical week from stances, this implies 58,000 vehicle and 99,500 passenger trips from hailing. If telephone work is assumed to be around half the stance level, this adds a further 15,500 vehicle and 26,500 passenger trips.

It is mind boggling to think that a survey can be conducted without utilising the foremost common denominator namely radio bookings and then subjecting that common denominator to guesswork.

How can anyone ignore a fact? Then proceed to transplant that fact into guesswork by using unsound data gathered under unscientific means?

The damming outcome can clearly be seen in the figures represented in this report in the passage I have highlighted. The only true figure that could have been relied upon but was totally ignored is that of the radio work.

Jacobs guessed at the percentage of street hirings and their percentage figures for rank hirings based on their figures for street hailings and the actual figures for Radio work is grossly over exagerated.

Apart from the many failings in this report the most pivotal point of all the inaccuracies is the incompetent figures submitted by Jacobs in respect of hackney carriage usage in the three main forms of hiring. Namely rank, Hail and Radio work. in my opinion It is this incompetence that will be the downfall of this report.

If Jacob's had first obtained the daily job sheets or computer print outs of each of the three main radio companies, they would have been in a position to know that the attitude survey did not reflect reality. Therefore it could not be relied upon as a true reflection of how the public obtain their Taxi services.

The attitude survey shows that Jacob's were complacent in accepting views from the public without first challenging those views with evidence that they could and should have obtained from Radio companies but chose not to. Jacobs further state in their report that the 8% sample for radio bookings appeared to be rather low. Although the 8% no doubt raised alarm bells in Ian Millership's head he failed to address the problem and instead based his report on inaccurate information.

Ian Millership goes someway to rectifying the unsound evidence of the attitude survey by suggesting Radio work might be half that of the Stance work, in fact he is still under estimating radio work by some 66%. As I have previously pointed out Radio work acounts for at least 45,000 jobs per week where as Rank hire according to jacobs accounts for 31,000 hires. It should be taken into account that jacobs only surveyed the equivelent of half a day so they had to revert to a guessing game in order to come up with their rank hire figures. The same also applies to flaggers, so it is no wonder they got it manifestly wrong.

The list of catestrophic errors are endless but all will be revealed sooner rather than later.

Regards

JD

Trading in the scarcity value of Hackney Carriage License plates in Edinburgh.

At present, a license plate in Edinburgh will cost you in the region of £40,000. This is the figure commonly quoted by Jimmy Nielsen of I.T.S who is a broker in the unofficial sale of Licence plates. Mr Nielsen provides a confidential service for both buyer and seller and can be contacted on 0131 550 3777. Ian Millership did not bother to contact Mr Nielsen or indeed enquire into the grey market value for license plates. The national Government has stated high plate premiums are an indication of unmet demand, the combined unofficial total of plate values in Edinburgh for all 1260 cabs is a staggering £50,400,000. In my opinion Jacobs intentionally sought not to fully investigate the unofficial value of license plates.

Regards

JD

Survey of Taxi Provision in Edinburgh

Jacobs Consultancy £25,000. Points 60
Transportation Planning (Int) Ltd £24,850. Points 59.5
Halcrow £33,552. Points 57
Colin Buchanan and Partners £126,488. Points 49.5
TRi/Fauber Maunsell £160,050. Points 39

Jacobs Consultancy was awarded the survey contract because they put in the cheapest tender.

When examining the other tenders apart from the one submitted by Transportation planning which included paying for additional extras you can see that the cost of the survey estimates rise sharply.

Colin Buchanan and Partners at £126,488 and TRi/Fauber Maunsell at £160,050 are without doubt the most expensive. However these two survey tenders highlight the costs and time involved if a survey is to be done correctly.

There are many man hours involved in undertaking a survey but what Jacobs did was to cut corners by using an armachair, a telephone and a video camera. In other words there were very few people on the ground and instead of gathering factual information they relied on the assumption that councillors do not have a clue when it comes to understanding Taxi surveys.

Unfortunately for Jacobs they didn't count on their report being scrutinised by people who know a dam site more about the Taxi trade than they do.

I expect their report will rebound on them in no uncertain fashion.

Regards

JD

I know what you mean Jasbar, but at the end of the day it is now her property, is it not? because she has paid for it, why did you not buy it?

The plate is not her property, it is the vehicle which is her property. The plate is always the property of the issuing authority "and providing they have just cause" they can excecise their right to deprive you of that plate anytime they feel justified.

Plate values are not earned they are a by-product of a commodity being rationed and just like any form of rationing restrictions can be lifted at any time without notice. A fool and his money are soon parted.

Regards

JD

To be fair JD, I am not sure it's just that simple, if there is a limit on the number of Licenses, what choice do you have if you wish to enter the trade?

Also could you tell me what Law has actually changed up here in Scotland, they are still entitled to limit the number of Taxis.

Early reviews of the Edinburgh taxi operation showed that hailing was an important part of the way in which passengers obtained taxis. The idea of observing hailing demand by use of a taxi with its light on was considered. The trade explained that this idea would not produce useful information since people would not tend to flag any vehicle which they saw already had people inside.

quite the opposite in my opinion light on or off if they need a taxi the hands out. i take it this discusion took place after jacobs where awarded the contract,so this idea was iether within thier budget or it was not really considered at all.

Later discussion with the trade also identified that estimation of such demand would be very difficult since many drivers did not seek business with their ‘for hire’ lights on for security reasons.

i notived this also utter tosh but if you take it as read,then that in itself would suggest that the level of demand is so high that you can have youre light off and still pick and choose youre work,kind of makes mokery of the first pargraph?????


The trade also provided us with suggestions of the principal areas for hailing, whilst the video surveys also provided us with evidence of people hailing taxis within sight of the principal stances.

so the trade will tell you how to conduct a survey and where to conduct it
i think this week ill take a day off with my video cam in the taxi and conduct a survey myself,itll probably come back with more accurate data than the trades...oops jacobs survey
nothing but a padded out fix designed to look good to people that dont understand the trade and cant add up
mr millerships leaving present i think

sirius if the council want thier plate back no matter what you paid for it they can take it back ,as long as they have good reason to do so (i should remind you that a council good reason is not what most decent people would regard as good or even substantiated reason)
you dont really think the council takes any responsibily for youre actions do you?????

I'm not suggesting entering the trade is simple or that any law has been changed. I merely pointed out that the license at all times belongs to the issuing authority and it is the vehicle that is owned by the proprietor and not the license. We all know how licenses work and in most cases as long as you abide by the conditions of license laid down by the licensing authority you will remain entitled to use it.

On the other hand if you actually owned something it would mean you had ultimate control over it, I'm afraid the only persons who have ultimate control over a Hackney carriage proprietors license are the issuing authority.

We all pay a license renewal fee every year or every few years depending on authority, stop paying that fee and see how long you have your license. You will still have your vehicle but the license will be taken away from you. That's because you don't own the license and the licensing authority does.

Just a quick point about the law, the law in Scotland concerning entry to the taxi Trade is the same as in England and Wales. "A council can only limit numbers where it can prove there is no demand which is unmet". The law favours the applicant in this respect and even more so in Scotland because the courts have deemed evidence of demand must be kept up to date.

Regards

JD

That is exactly the point, you should have a choice not to be stitched up by a Council policy of "regulatory capture". Or, have to buy in to an institutionalised cartel which makes the market undemocratic and uncompetitive, and only exists by way of your competitors expanding to fill the gap in the unmet demand.


The Law is Scotland gives local authorities the power to limit licence plates but only if they can prove there is "no significant unmet demand" .


This is exactly why the Council commissioned SUD's leave out anything that could prove otherwise.

In short they want you to drive in the trade as long as you don't want to own your own taxi licence or unless you are prepared satisfy the conditions of the plate holders cartel i.e. £45,000.


It's a Joke and bloody madness to pay that kind of money and allow the CEC to hold sway over everything you do, 45K to become a council employee, my god no wonder RealCabforce and Co are off their bloody heads. It must come as a shock to the system to realise that after paying 45K for a plate you bought nothing but a shiny piece of plastic and not much else.

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All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.
George Orwell, "Animal Farm"

its fascinating, because someone has a different opinion than the fraternity they are accused of being liars, or having vested interests but then I have come to expect that.

they rubbish MR T, fact is he provided decent opinion

but now they have begun to rubbish the $$$$$ forum, fact is its just as informative as TDO.

If you dont like it - then maybe you should re name this site Taxi Deregulation Online..

people get called liars when thier lying, as in the pm fiasco
funny out of all the topics discussed here you pick dereg
i wonder why ??????