captain cab wrote:
JD wrote
The NTA know the ground rules because they were a founder member to the "local Councils know best" club. Councils are now presented with a far greater predicament than just considering what is best for Taxi drivers, they have to consider what is best for all. That is what the NTA cannot come to terms with.
Quote:
An unfair point, there is a wider picture and you can hardly suggest operating a taxi in Manchester or Birmingham is similar to operating a taxi on the South Downs or in a rural district. Taxis are local transport and can only be left to locals.
On the contrary, it is a most valid point even though it might be unpalatable to some? Because it wasn't me who said, "Councils know best" it was the NTA.
Quote:
JD wrote.
This statement is more of a cry for help because the NTA and I suspect soon the TGWU, the NTTA and lots of others are getting cold feet at what is happening throughout the country.
Quote:
Absolute tosh, the statement is a view and a concern that LA's are not treating the issue seriously, be this councils that limit or delimit.
Why should you concern yourself with what LA's do? You are on record as saying LA's know best. Have you now had a change of mind about that concept? If you felt LA's were not doing things right you could have have written to them explaining your concerns and perhaps tell them why they are not doing it right.
The NTA is against issuing licences, it said so comprehensively at the Select committee hearing and Mr Conyon is on Record as saying it on several other occasions to, so don't try and mislead us into thinking that the NTA are not concerned about councils delimiting because they are.
The NTA can dress this statement up anyway they want but it still comes out reading the same.
Quote:
JD wrote.
They can't turn around now and say there is 50 percent of Authorities that are regulated because they can see it in black and white thanks to yours truly. I'm just waiting for the NTA and everyone else to acknowledge what the rest of us have known for some time but I suppose they will all live the lie until it consumes them.
Quote:
I am suprised by this statement, you are answering your own question and giving yourself a pat on the back to boot!.
I'm not giving myself anything of the sort. I'm pointing out that no organisation can now say that 45 or 50% of the Taxi trade is regulated.
We like to see the facts don't we?
Didn't we read in a certain Trade Mag only two months ago that 45 or 50% of the trade was regulated? Well now, they all know a little different don't they? If it weren't for this site highlighting the fact that there are only 35.5% of Authorities with a current policy of regulation, the NTA would probably be non the wiser and perhaps might not have even written their statement.
Quote:
You seem to be operating under a delusion that the NTA is a nasty piece of work hell bent on retaining numbers control, sorry to upset you but that is not the case and there is more to the NTA than that, you obviously confuse the NTA with the NTTG.
I don't think anything of the sort about the NTA, in fact I think they are perhaps the most sober organisation the hackney carriage trade has. However, it wasn't me who said, "Councils know best" it was the NTA.
Therefore, for the NTA to criticise the democratic way in which councils do business, when it doesn't entirely work out as they planned, is a little rich don't you think?
Quote:
You make statements about credibility, yet we know little about your own interest in the trade. Did you drive PH or HC? did you own PH or HC? If you owned a HC in Manchester for instance, did you go to the town hall and ask for it to be given to the next person on the list?
My credentials are not the topic of discussion, I lead from the front and you can judge me by what I produce not what I might write in a magazine. As for plates I comment on lies and misinformation, I leave the politics of restricting plates to organisations that work for vested interests such as the NTA and others. It matters not to me who gets what but what does matter to me is the Truth.
Quote:
From my own point of view I personally dont think licenses should be limited, but there should be high standards for entry into the profession. Having said that, I dont have the right to tell someone who may have spent thousands for a plate, morgaging his house for security, that his money has been wasted and the plates now worth nothing. However, perhaps licenses should only be granted to owner drivers as opposed to fleet owners.
I don't have a point of view! My only concern is that the truth is not lost in the lies that emanate from some quarters of the Taxi trade and just for a little history lesson I'll let you know what the NTA have said recently regarding Numbers control.
Quote:
National Taxi Association
NTA chairman Dennis Conyon claimed that de-restriction would compromise the ability of drivers to make a living and could force many into taking second jobs. He pointed out that although there were often customer delays when the pubs emptied late at night, during the day many cabs sat idle. The Guardian quoted Mr Conyon as saying: "How can a man make a living? This could well turn the industry into a part-time scenario."
Mr Conyon of the NTA made the following statement to Andrew Clark, transport correspondent of the Guardian on Wednesday November 12, 2003
Taxi drivers' representatives warned that the liberalisation could force many drivers to take second jobs. Dennis Conyon, the chairman of the National Taxi Association, said: "How can a man make a living? This could well turn the industry into a part-time scenario."
Mr Conyon, who drives a taxi in Maidstone, Kent, said that although there were often queues when the pubs closed, cabs in provincial towns and cities often sat idle during the day. He added: "It's always been our opinion that local authorities are best to look after the interests of consumers."
Chairman: You do say at various points that some of the evidence is anecdotal. Do you have any information about the level of premia that are charged for licences? Quote:
Mr Gray: Ma'am, it would be pointless saying that these plates do not change hands on occasion for sums of money and often, I suspect, quite large sums of money. The reason I said that the evidence was anecdotal is that this is one of those pieces of information that we will always be the last to know. They are dealt with on hackney ranks or something like that, and I do not think there is any hard evidence of what goes on. It was difficult for me to understand what sort of numbers it was suggested were going at £50,000 and what sort of numbers were going at £7,500
We take the view that that is not necessarily evidence of the fact that the service to the public is suffering as a result of that and we take the view also that the mere fact that this may happen is not of itself necessarily evidence that the public suffer.
People do make large commitments to a trade and we take the view again that the fact that people are prepared to make that commitment, which can be really quite huge, is going to put them into the trade in a big way rather than have the fly-by-night people who will perhaps come in from private hire if there are unlimited plates and then come out just as quickly.
Mrs Ellman: Do any of you believe that there is any evidence that there is significant unmet need under the restricted system? Quote:
Mr Conyon: I feel that the 1985 Act adequately covers any necessary derestriction because it gives the local authority the power to order a survey, which invariably the taxi trade pay for, and by that method if there is any significant unmet demand thrown up the council acts on that because legally they have to. We are of the belief that it should be left at a local level. I am not quite sure what this deregulation is going to do. All it is going to do is take it away from local authorities and give a national framework for deregulation and we believe that the best people to deal with that are the local authorities.
Q27 Mrs Ellman: Can you see any advantages in taking the decision-making away from local authorities and making it national? Quote:
Mr Conyon: No.
Q33 Mr Stringer: Can I ask the National Taxi Association outside of London what is the average cost from a local authority of a plate? Quote:
Mr Conyon: There is no cost. If you get an issue, it is free.
Q34 Mr Stringer: You were telling Mrs Dunwoody that then the immediate value of that might be as high as £50,000. Quote:
Mr Conyon: No. I think the OFT report shows that. I did not say that.
Q35 Mr Stringer: But you accepted that there was a range in values and you could not be specific as to where and how many? Quote:
Mr Conyon: I think there is a range in value. What the OFT report does not show is how many are worth £50,000 and how many are worth £7,500, as my colleague said. I have no facts whatsoever on the cost.
Q36 Mr Stringer: What justification could you give for a local authority handing out something for no income to them and then it immediately having a value of many thousands of pounds? Is that not indicative that there is a monopoly situation, because the taxi driver cannot have put any effort into that plate at that time, can he—or she? Quote:
Mr Conyon: I think the answer to that, and it is very difficult to defend what you are saying to me.
Q38 Mr Stringer: It is getting something for nothing, is it not? Quote:
Mr Conyon: I am not quite sure of that because the waiting list is geared up to a system whereby the people who get the plate have been in the industry quite a number of years. They have already been into a service and one way of getting it is to hope that by the means of a local authority doing a survey that will throw up significant unmet demand and then the people on the list will get one. I am not sure if I ought to enlarge on this a little bit.
Q48 Clive Efford: The policy has not changed much since. Can I follow up a question that Mr Stringer was asking erlier on. Is there any evidence of selling of plates immediately after they have been issued by a licensing authority, of somebody cashing in immediately? Quote:
Mr Conyon: I have heard of very small numbers. If you take the whole of the taxi industry you are talking about 0.000%; very small.
Q49 Clive Efford: So, on the whole, you would say that the issue of those plates is seen as an entrance into the industry rather than a way of making money out of their....... Quote:
Mr Conyon: I see it as an entry into a business, yes, certainly.
Q50 Clive Efford: On the issue relating to the quality of the vehicles, I think we all agree that there is a danger of a reduction or a diminution of the quality of the vehicle if restrictions are lifted, and that is in the maintenance and standard of vehicles and the renewal of them. Quote:
Mr Conyon: I think this is very, very much a fear. There are a lot of local authorities now that adopt a quality approach towards vehicle age limits and everything, and I think this is very good for the industry. Certainly, it is good for the public, whereby they can rely on getting carried safely in a safe vehicle, with maintenance right the way through.
Q52 Clive Efford: Going back to the OFT report, do you feel that they looked at this aspect of the industry enough? I am thinking of customer satisfaction, providing services for people with disabilities—the impact of derestriction on those sorts of customers. Quote:
Mr Conyon: I think, if I may, I believe that their report was not very good in respect of the Disabled Discrimination Act 1995 because it suggests, I believe, that they have a mixture of saloon cars and wheelchair accessible, whereas the Disabled Discrimination Act does state that every taxi in this country will be wheelchair accessible, starting I believe in 2010. So I think that the OFT report certainly flies in the face of that.
Q53 Clive Efford: The point I am really driving at is that I think the OFT report is deficient (I am going to make a statement and ask you whether you agree with it), in the sense that it has not done enough about customer satisfaction or customer views about the service. For instance, they suggest that it is cost and waiting times that are most important to customers, but there is a range of needs out there that the taxi industry meets. I do not think that has been considered enough in this report, and I would ask you to comment on that. Quote:
Mr Conyon: I think the report is very shallow. I think it is a report that has taken some quite considerable time to put together but the substance of it is, sadly, lacking, and I agree totally with you that insufficient evidence has been gathered by them in respect of the consumer. I am quite sure my colleagues here will agree that we do have the consumer at heart when we oppose the OFT report.
Q55 Chairman: Gentlemen, I use lots of cabs and I am going to cheat on a Chairman's privileges by asking you something that concerns me. Do you have any evidence that where there has been derestriction, taxi firms (and I am thinking more outside London throughout this) which provide a 24-hour service find it more difficult when dealing with the derestricted area than they do with the restricted? Does that affect the viability of the firms concerned? Quote:
Mr Conyon: I think there is more chance of a 24-hour service in a restricted area, based on the fact that invariably when you talk about taxi companies you probably talk about radio circuits, which is a different kettle of fish, whereby the taxi or the private hire man pays a fee to the radio circuit to be on it. I think there is quite good evidence, if we could look it up (and I have not got it with me) which says that there is a good 24-hour service available.
Quote:
Taken from Taxi talk magazine
Mr Conyon, Taxitalk.
He continued: "We are not opposed to new entrants to the business, but we believe the growth of the taxi fleets should be a local matter, decided by local authorities. This was enshrined in law by Section 16 of the 1985 Transport Act."
And finally from the same magazine from a Mr. Wayne Casey, a piece that I can give a little credit.
http://www.taxitalk.co.uk/pages/issue12 ... ration.htm
Very enlightening isn't it. The NTA say councils are best placed to determine what's best for them? Then have the audacity to turn around and say they are concerned that councils are being undemocratic when considering delimitation.
I stand by my original observation.
Best wishes
JD
Login
Register
FAQ
