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Sefton survey
http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14233		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  dagger [ Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Sefton survey
Just had a letter of Sefton council with a survey for Hackney carriage unmet demand, I'm sure most will know what type of questions are on it and i will fill it in to the best of my cynical ability. Only problem is I am private hire so why send them to us. There are 271 hacks in sefton and about 2000 private hire in the firm I work for so god only knows what the total private hire is throughout. There are questions about wether ranks should/should'nt be in certain places which has to be unfair as the the majority of PH are obviously have differing opinions to HC. There are no questions what so ever about numbers of PH or their impacts. A result to this survey which would lead to the conclusion that there is no unmet demand for HC could sway in the council's favour by making them look good by claiming to carry on with the limit of 271 but then increasing the PH even more. Should PH be filling these forms in? Would it make any difference if I popped a letter in the envelope explaining the position of the trade as a whole rather than just the one side of it?
Author:  toots [ Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
good by claiming to carry on with the limit of 271 but then increasing the PH even more.


The limit on ph is limitless anyway. Whenever I pass through Sefton area there are HC's all over the place so I wouldn't think an increase was necessary or healthy for that matter. With regards to the situation on the PH side there isn't anything can be done from a licensing point they have to give them a license if they fit the criteria. Perhaps the criteria should be toughened up. Perhaps the reason why so many of the PH loiter around the Liverpool areas for work could be explained by the sheer number of vehicles licenced in Sefton for PH.

The other side to the arguement is that some of those on PH are so because they cannot get a license for HC cos there are none available unless you pay for it. Some will have you believe that it should be a free market for ALL. It is entirely open to debate and opinion as usual :D
Author:  Sussex [ Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sefton survey
dagger wrote:
Only problem is I am private hire so why send them to us.

To allow them to justify to the likes of you paying for it. :sad:
Author:  Brummie Cabbie [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sefton survey
Sussex wrote:
dagger wrote:
Only problem is I am private hire so why send them to us.

To allow them to justify to the likes of you paying for it. :sad:

More like to justify a bigger fee for the company doing the survey.

IMO a PURE Significant Unmet Demand Survey should only take account of Hackney Carriages working taxi stands & plying for hire in the streets.

It should not even take into account HCs working radio systems.

I believe Section 16 is quite clear about that, but survey companies are always looking to increase fees & all these distractions allow them to justify higher survey fees.
Author:  dagger [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sefton survey
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
Sussex wrote:
dagger wrote:
Only problem is I am private hire so why send them to us.

To allow them to justify to the likes of you paying for it. :sad:

More like to justify a bigger fee for the company doing the survey.

IMO a PURE Significant Unmet Demand Survey should only take account of Hackney Carriages working taxi stands & plying for hire in the streets.

It should not even take into account HCs working radio systems.

I believe Section 16 is quite clear about that, but survey companies are always looking to increase fees & all these distractions allow them to justify higher survey fees.
Exactly my point Brummie Cab, the results will have HC stating there are too many Hacks and not enough ranks and then about 6000 PH stating too many Hacks and wanting the removal of ranks because eeerrrrrr - Too many private hire!
Author:  dagger [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Who pays for the survey anyway? I always thought it was Hackneys who chipped in and payed it themselves, if not and the money comes from the council then I hope the survey company screw them for as much as they can because not a penny of license money goes back in around here.
Author:  Brummie Cabbie [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
dagger wrote:
Who pays for the survey anyway? I always thought it was Hackneys who chipped in and payed it themselves, if not and the money comes from the council then I hope the survey company screw them for as much as they can because not a penny of license money goes back in around here.

Survey fees should come out of the licensing fees budget & surveys should be commissioned by the council only.

On no account should they come directly from drivers, as that might be seen as inequitable, biased or prejudicial to the outcome of the survey.
Author:  MR T [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
As usual many differing points of view..... in the past private hire drivers have stated that there is an unmet demand...... so unfortunately the only way to prove that there isn't is by survey..... as I am an extremely reasonable individual I have been of the mind that people claiming should bear part of the cost when proving they are wrong..... the survey is paid for by an additional £2 per licence..... not bad for a private hire driver £2 every three years.

As for why private hire companies are included in the survey, it is important to give a full picture of the services being provided by both hackney and private hire..... I must admit after reading the letter from Sefton / survey company I was surprised that two extremely important questions have not been asked..1... whether a driver is full time or part-time and 2 how much of his work is generated outside of Sefton......

Another point that I find sloppy..... is that in light of the recent new Act..... Sefton is not specifically surveying the needs of the disabled in regard to how many wheelchair accessible vehicles we would need.......
Author:  Brummie Cabbie [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
MR T wrote:
As usual many differing points of view..... in the past private hire drivers have stated that there is an unmet demand...... so unfortunately the only way to prove that there isn't is by survey..... as I am an extremely reasonable individual I have been of the mind that people claiming should bear part of the cost when proving they are wrong..... the survey is paid for by an additional £2 per licence..... not bad for a private hire driver £2 every three years.

As for why private hire companies are included in the survey, it is important to give a full picture of the services being provided by both hackney and private hire..... I must admit after reading the letter from Sefton / survey company I was surprised that two extremely important questions have not been asked..1... whether a driver is full time or part-time and 2 how much of his work is generated outside of Sefton......

Another point that I find sloppy..... is that in light of the recent new Act..... Sefton is not specifically surveying the needs of the disabled in regard to how many wheelchair accessible vehicles we would need.......

IMO SUD surveys should be strictly as per Section 16 of the TA 1985 & nothing else.

Otherwise the whole thing becomes blurred with insignificancies that have no bearing on Section 16.
Author:  MR T [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
MR T wrote:
As usual many differing points of view..... in the past private hire drivers have stated that there is an unmet demand...... so unfortunately the only way to prove that there isn't is by survey..... as I am an extremely reasonable individual I have been of the mind that people claiming should bear part of the cost when proving they are wrong..... the survey is paid for by an additional £2 per licence..... not bad for a private hire driver £2 every three years.

As for why private hire companies are included in the survey, it is important to give a full picture of the services being provided by both hackney and private hire..... I must admit after reading the letter from Sefton / survey company I was surprised that two extremely important questions have not been asked..1... whether a driver is full time or part-time and 2 how much of his work is generated outside of Sefton......

Another point that I find sloppy..... is that in light of the recent new Act..... Sefton is not specifically surveying the needs of the disabled in regard to how many wheelchair accessible vehicles we would need.......

IMO SUD surveys should be strictly as per Section 16 of the TA 1985 & nothing else.

Otherwise the whole thing becomes blurred with insignificancies that have no bearing on Section 16.
BC of course you are entitled to your opinion.... as we all are...... 1985 was a long time ago........ men have landed on the moon........ people now have mobile phones..... the whole of taxing has evolved........ some taxi drivers who wished to stay in the past would agree with you...... but unfortunately with the greatest respect... I don't....
Author:  Brummie Cabbie [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
MR T wrote:
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
MR T wrote:
As usual many differing points of view..... in the past private hire drivers have stated that there is an unmet demand...... so unfortunately the only way to prove that there isn't is by survey..... as I am an extremely reasonable individual I have been of the mind that people claiming should bear part of the cost when proving they are wrong..... the survey is paid for by an additional £2 per licence..... not bad for a private hire driver £2 every three years.

As for why private hire companies are included in the survey, it is important to give a full picture of the services being provided by both hackney and private hire..... I must admit after reading the letter from Sefton / survey company I was surprised that two extremely important questions have not been asked..1... whether a driver is full time or part-time and 2 how much of his work is generated outside of Sefton......

Another point that I find sloppy..... is that in light of the recent new Act..... Sefton is not specifically surveying the needs of the disabled in regard to how many wheelchair accessible vehicles we would need.......

IMO SUD surveys should be strictly as per Section 16 of the TA 1985 & nothing else.

Otherwise the whole thing becomes blurred with insignificancies that have no bearing on Section 16.

BC of course you are entitled to your opinion.... as we all are...... 1985 was a long time ago........ men have landed on the moon........ people now have mobile phones..... the whole of taxing has evolved........ some taxi drivers who wished to stay in the past would agree with you...... but unfortunately with the greatest respect... I don't....

Mr T, my point is; what on earth has PH, or HC on radio systems for that matter, to do with a SUD survey relating to Section 16?
Author:  MR T [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
MR T wrote:
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
MR T wrote:
As usual many differing points of view..... in the past private hire drivers have stated that there is an unmet demand...... so unfortunately the only way to prove that there isn't is by survey..... as I am an extremely reasonable individual I have been of the mind that people claiming should bear part of the cost when proving they are wrong..... the survey is paid for by an additional £2 per licence..... not bad for a private hire driver £2 every three years.

As for why private hire companies are included in the survey, it is important to give a full picture of the services being provided by both hackney and private hire..... I must admit after reading the letter from Sefton / survey company I was surprised that two extremely important questions have not been asked..1... whether a driver is full time or part-time and 2 how much of his work is generated outside of Sefton......

Another point that I find sloppy..... is that in light of the recent new Act..... Sefton is not specifically surveying the needs of the disabled in regard to how many wheelchair accessible vehicles we would need.......

IMO SUD surveys should be strictly as per Section 16 of the TA 1985 & nothing else.

Otherwise the whole thing becomes blurred with insignificancies that have no bearing on Section 16.

BC of course you are entitled to your opinion.... as we all are...... 1985 was a long time ago........ men have landed on the moon........ people now have mobile phones..... the whole of taxing has evolved........ some taxi drivers who wished to stay in the past would agree with you...... but unfortunately with the greatest respect... I don't....

Mr T, my point is; what on earth has PH, or HC on radio systems for that matter, to do with a SUD survey relating to Section 16?
If every licensed hackney only worked the road and stands I could agree with you... but they don't..... and to understand the effect removing numeral controls would have on the general public by decreasing the number of private hire.... by allowing them to become Hackney's is essential...... after all the person who is ringing for a private hire vehicle at 2 am on a Saturday morning from their home..... is just as important as the person standing on the street,
Author:  Brummie Cabbie [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
MR T wrote:
If every licensed hackney only worked the road and stands I could agree with you... but they don't..... and to understand the effect removing numeral controls would have on the general public by decreasing the number of private hire.... by allowing them to become Hackney's is essential...... after all the person who is ringing for a private hire vehicle at 2 am on a Saturday morning from their home..... is just as important as the person standing on the street,

But there is no limit on PH numbers, their numbers will always be unrestricted, so why include them into a SUD survey.

Section 16 only relates to HC, it can never relate to PH because of the above.
Author:  MR T [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
MR T wrote:
If every licensed hackney only worked the road and stands I could agree with you... but they don't..... and to understand the effect removing numeral controls would have on the general public by decreasing the number of private hire.... by allowing them to become Hackney's is essential...... after all the person who is ringing for a private hire vehicle at 2 am on a Saturday morning from their home..... is just as important as the person standing on the street,

But there is no limit on PH numbers, their numbers will always be unrestricted, so why include them into a SUD survey.

Section 16 only relates to HC, it can never relate to PH because of the above.
BC section 16 does not state that you need a survey... it says roughly that the person issuing the licence must know there is no unmet demand..... surveys are carried out for the benefit of the court, when councils defend the decision... and I'm quite sure that a much more simpler system could be devised....... but whether the courts would accept it is another matter.....
Author:  Brummie Cabbie [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
MR T wrote:
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
MR T wrote:
If every licensed hackney only worked the road and stands I could agree with you... but they don't..... and to understand the effect removing numeral controls would have on the general public by decreasing the number of private hire.... by allowing them to become Hackney's is essential...... after all the person who is ringing for a private hire vehicle at 2 am on a Saturday morning from their home..... is just as important as the person standing on the street,

But there is no limit on PH numbers, their numbers will always be unrestricted, so why include them into a SUD survey.

Section 16 only relates to HC, it can never relate to PH because of the above.

BC section 16 does not state that you need a survey... it says roughly that the person issuing the licence must know there is no unmet demand..... surveys are carried out for the benefit of the court, when councils defend the decision... and I'm quite sure that a much more simpler system could be devised....... but whether the courts would accept it is another matter.....

That's agreed & understood.
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