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| nottingham to decide on 4th july. how do think it will go ?? http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2124 |
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| Author: | cab happy [ Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | nottingham to decide on 4th july. how do think it will go ?? |
AFFECTED: All ITEM No REGULATORY COMMITTEE DATE 4TH July 2005 REPORT OF CORPORATE DIRECTOR OF CITY DEVELOPMENT SURVEY OF UNMET DEMAND RESULTS 1 SUMMARY A survey to determine whether a significant unmet demand exists for Hackney Carriages has been undertaken by the firm of consultants Halcrow Fox. The results of that survey are contained in the main body of this report (Appendix 2). 2 RECOMMENDATIONS It is recommended that Members determine what action they wish to take from the following range of options: 1. Remove the numerical restriction on the number of hackney carriage licences issued. 2. Agree to release a fixed number of hackney carriage licences to be issued over a set period of time 3. Retain the current numerical restriction on the number of hackney carriage licences issued 3 BACKGROUND 3.1 There are currently 405 hackney carriage licences issued. 3.2 Section 16 of the Transport Act 1985 states that a local authority may only limit the number of Hackney Carriages which it will licence if, but only if, it is satisfied that there is no unmet significant demand for hackney carriages within the area. This has resulted in any local Council which numerically restricts the number of hackney carriage licences issued having to undertake a survey of unmet demand to ascertain that they are acting correctly. This Council has now had three such surveys. 3.3 During 2004 the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) contacted local authorities to advise that (amongst other matters) Councils should not restrict the number of hackney carriage licences issued unless they were satisfied that there was no significant unmet demand for them. It also required that Councils should publish their reasons for not issuing hackney carriage licences on demand. 3.4 The conclusion reached after the recent survey of unmet demand by Halcrow Fox is contained on page 57 of the report (copies will be supplied separately to members and will be available at the committee meeting) and is extracted in full below:- “The study concludes that there is presently no significant unmet demand for the services of hackney carriages in Nottingham. This places the licensing authority in the position of having discretion over its entry policy. Despite the fact that the current level of hackney carriage provision is relatively high in Nottingham, there are areas in which the service to customers could be improved. • The existence of a (small) licence premium suggests that current policy is distorting the market in the interests of the Trade. To address this we would suggest that the authority imposes downward pressure on fares until resale values are eliminated. • There exists the potential to improve the provision of ranks in the City. This report has identified a number of potential locations for new ranks and we would suggest that the licensing authority conducts further work to assess the feasibility of increasing rank capacity in line with there opportunities.” 3.5 The Department for Transport (DOT), whilst not agreeing with the OFT report, has written to local authorities indicating that the LA’s should consider removing any policy that they have with regard to numerical restrictions of hackney carriage licences. However, the Government stance is that local authorities should keep numerical restrictions on the issue of hackney carriage licences if it is considered appropriate to do so. 3.6 The Taxi Licensing Section maintains a list of people who would like to be issued with a hackney carriage licence. The list comprises the names of some 350 persons who have expressed an interest in obtaining a hackney carriage licence. A letter from the Consultants (attached at Appendix 1) indicates the waiting list has no bearing on the issue of significant unmet demand. 4 PROPOSALS 4.1 If Members agree to de-restrict the number of hackney carriage licences issued it is proposed that each person on the waiting list will be advised of the Committees decision. It is also proposed to take out a notice in the local press to inform members of the public of the Council’s policy. It is also proposed that quality controls for vehicles be maintained at the current standard, that is, any new licence will only be issued to vehicles which are brand new, purpose built, wheelchair accessible and conforming to other relevant Council specifications. (Currently this comprises the TX2, and Mercedes and Fiat vehicles re-constructed by the Jubilee Automotive Group, the Metrocab and Fairway vehicles (no longer being manufactured)). These standards would need to be met whether the Authority totally deregulated or chose to release an additional amount of licences. 4.2 If Members agree to restrict the issue of hackney carriage licences either by maintaining the present limit or increasing it, then it is proposed to continue with the current policy of maintaining a waiting list. It is also proposed to take out a notice with the local press informing the public of the reasons for maintaining a restriction on the number of hackney carriage licences issued. 5 TIMESCALE FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF PROPOSALS 5.1 It is anticipated that any action contained in the proposal section of this report can be commenced in 4 weeks and completed in 8 weeks. 6 FINANCIAL IMPLICATIONS 6.1 The cost of mailing all persons on the waiting list and any advertisement in the local press can be contained within the existing budget. 6.2 Any appeal against the Councils decision would be to the Courts. It is not possible to put a fixed cost to this. 7 LEGAL IMPLICATIONS 7.1 The authority has always had the power to remove the limit on the number of hackney Carriage licences which it may grant and deregulate and this appears to be the preferred option of the OFT. However, if a new limit is to be set or the existing one retained members must be satisfied once that limit is reached there will be no significant unmet demand for hackney carriages and should give their reasons for their decision. 8 EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES IMPLICATIONS None 9 STRATEGIC AIMS 9.1 The Councils Crime and Disorder strategy would be assisted by the provision of additional hackney carriages providing the public, who are taking advantage of late night activities, access to licensed vehicles at a time when regular bus services have ceased. This could assist in helping areas to be cleared of people more quickly. More licensed vehicles may also have an impact on the illegal plying for hire that takes place at this time. 10 BEST VALUE 10.1 Any additional licences issued would only be issued to vehicles meeting the Councils entry requirements which states that vehicles must be new, wheelchair accessible and meeting the Councils specification. 11 List of background papers other than published works or those disclosing confidential or exempt information Hackney Carriage Unmet Demand Survey – May 2005 Letter from Halcrow Fox reference Hackney Carriage waiting list 12 Published documents referred to in compiling this report Report of corporate director city development - OFT Report “The Regulation of Licensed Taxi and PHV Services in the UK” and the Government’s Response - 20 September 2004 |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nottingham to decide on 4th july. how do think it will g |
cab happy wrote: The existence of a (small) licence premium suggests that current policy is distorting the market in the interests of the Trade. To address this we would suggest that the authority imposes downward pressure on fares until resale values are eliminated.
Hmmmmmmmmmm. 
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| Author: | Sussex [ Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nottingham to decide on 4th july. how do think it will g |
cab happy wrote: 3.5 The Department for Transport (DOT), whilst not agreeing with the OFT report, has written to local authorities indicating that the LA’s should consider removing any policy that they have with regard to numerical restrictions of hackney carriage licences. However, the Government stance is that local authorities should keep numerical restrictions on the issue of hackney carriage licences if it is considered appropriate to do so.
Is that right? Did the DfT not agree with OFT, or did they agree but decided, at the mo, to leave it to councils to decide for themselves? 
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| Author: | tcabbie [ Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
4 july is a good date for independance 
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| Author: | JD [ Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nottingham to decide on 4th july. how do think it will g |
Sussex wrote: cab happy wrote: 3.5 The Department for Transport (DOT), whilst not agreeing with the OFT report, has written to local authorities indicating that the LA’s should consider removing any policy that they have with regard to numerical restrictions of hackney carriage licences. However, the Government stance is that local authorities should keep numerical restrictions on the issue of hackney carriage licences if it is considered appropriate to do so. Is that right? Did the DfT not agree with OFT, or did they agree but decided, at the mo, to leave it to councils to decide for themselves? It was the transport select committee who didn't agree with certain aspects of the OFT report. The DfT after consultation Welcomed the OFT report but left it up to councils to decide their own policy, stating councils are best placed to judge the needs of their own community. The Government propose to revisit the situation in three years time. That time is upon us in 2007. The LO of Nottingham is misleading when he states the DFT disagreed with OFT report. Regards JD |
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| Author: | JD [ Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:31 pm ] |
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The questions asked, how do you think it will go? For what it's worth I think Nottingham will remain restricted. Regards JD |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:47 pm ] |
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JD wrote: The questions asked, how do you think it will go?
For what it's worth I think Nottingham will remain restricted. I think they will ditch the dark side, and join the light side. May the force be with them. 
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| Author: | JD [ Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:45 pm ] |
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Sussex wrote: JD wrote: The questions asked, how do you think it will go? For what it's worth I think Nottingham will remain restricted. I think they will ditch the dark side, and join the light side. May the force be with them. The file can be downloaded from this page, scroll down to Hackney Carriage survey. http://open.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/comm/agenda.asp?1249 Theres an Interesting letter from the LO to Halcrow Fox asking about the waiting list. I suppose he was just clarifying the situation. Regards JD |
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| Author: | TDO [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nottingham to decide on 4th july. how do think it will g |
Sussex wrote: cab happy wrote: 3.5 The Department for Transport (DOT), whilst not agreeing with the OFT report, has written to local authorities indicating that the LA’s should consider removing any policy that they have with regard to numerical restrictions of hackney carriage licences. However, the Government stance is that local authorities should keep numerical restrictions on the issue of hackney carriage licences if it is considered appropriate to do so. Is that right? Did the DfT not agree with OFT, or did they agree but decided, at the mo, to leave it to councils to decide for themselves? I suppose that the statement could be justified, but then again it's essentially misleading. The writer has obviously heavily spun things to misrepresent the true position in some ways, but has done so in a manner such that a case could be made to justify the claims. I would say that the DfT essentially agreed with the OFT re the desirability of restricted numbers, thus to that extent the first statement is wrong, but to the extent that the DfT disagree about making derestriction mandatory then the statement is correct 
The claim that the Govt said that LAs should keep restrictions when appropriate to do so is also vaguely correct since the Govts stance was that restrictions might be justified, but only where derestriction led to consumer detriment, so the Nottingham statement perhaps implies a bit more leeway for LAs than the Govt intended. |
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| Author: | TDO [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: nottingham to decide on 4th july. how do think it will g |
cab happy wrote: The existence of a (small) licence premium suggests that current policy is distorting the market in the interests of the Trade. To address this we would suggest that the authority imposes downward pressure on fares until resale values are eliminated.
That's the most interesting passage in my opinion, and certainly reads like a anti-premium stance, if not anti-restrictions altogether. The thing is that although I haven't read many reports, I haven't read a statement like this in any of them, so might this suggest a change in direction by Halcrow? |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:49 pm ] |
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JD wrote: Theres an Interesting letter from the LO to Halcrow Fox asking about the waiting list. I suppose he was just clarifying the situation.
I suppose the act says significant un-met demand for taxi services. So if you have 350 drivers on the list, then if I was a judge (  ) that's significant demand for those seeking taxi services IMHO.
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| Author: | cab happy [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | it's a farce |
when the oft report advised the removal of all restrictions and the govt agreed, then thats what should have been done by the repeal of section 16, however the govt showed complete weakness and said local authorities are best placed to make that decision. I am of the opinion that such survey's will come back and say what the LA desire's it to say.One further thing if the HC trade was mainly white drivers in Nottingham then the asian cllrs would have had the restriction lifted a long time ago. |
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| Author: | 187ums [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:30 pm ] |
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you know whats really funny? the poor asians probably purchased the plates from white drivers who sold them at a premium, and now the white people are crying because they sold them and there are less and less white drivers out thier/ |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:14 pm ] |
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187ums wrote: you know whats really funny? the poor asians probably purchased the plates from white drivers who sold them at a premium, and now the white people are crying because they sold them and there are less and less white drivers out thier/
But if we were rid of quotas then it wouldn't matter a jot the colour of the skin, because we would all be treated the same. No-one would have anything to sell, thus no-one would have anything to buy.
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| Author: | cab happy [ Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:47 pm ] |
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well i am not crying just making an observation and sussex is correct |
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