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 Post subject: Edinburgh, Jacobs report
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:18 pm 
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The survey report has been published.

http://cpol.edinburgh.gov.uk/getdoc_ext.asp?DocId=69653


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:33 pm 
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Sirius wrote:
The survey report has been published.

http://cpol.edinburgh.gov.uk/getdoc_ext.asp?DocId=69653

The Jacobs shower say that "there doesn't appear to be any SUD". :shock:

And there was me thinking that had to prove no SUD. :shock:

But it would be nice if they defined SUD, so they (and we) could actually know what they are looking for. [-(

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:37 pm 
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Sirius wrote:
The survey report has been published.

http://cpol.edinburgh.gov.uk/getdoc_ext.asp?DocId=69653


Can someone please translate this for me?

I suspect when Jacobs refers to "Taxi movements" they mean journeys undertaken. So are we to assume that 53.000 passengers undertook 31,000 journeys and by how many cabs? Didn't they write down the plate numbers of the cabs undertaking the journeys? They used to years ago. I hate incomplete statistics.

31,000 journeys divided by 1260 cabs works out at 24 jobs per cab. If the Cabs are double shifted it works out at 12 jobs per shift. Say the average job is £7 that means single shifted cabs would all earn a grand total of £168.00. If the Cabs were double shifted it means they would earn £84.00.

It seems very little in earnings considering the average weekly gross earnings for a cab working 12 hours a day 7 days a week would be at least in the region of 600 to 700 pounds. If every cab was double shifted it would mean a weekly income per cab of around £1400 pounds. So how come a Cab earning 1,400 pounds only earns a poultry 168.00 pounds from rank work?

These figures just prove that either this survey is flawed or only a very small amount of the work in Edinburgh actually comes from Taxi ranks.

If we divide the earnings of a double shifted cab which is 1,400.00 pounds by the rank work taking's of 168.00 pounds, it gives us a figure of 12%. So a massive 88% of income is gained from journeys obtained at places other than at Taxi ranks.

If that is the case why is such prominence placed on Rank surveys?

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:55 pm 
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The public attitude survey says that the breakdown is 32% stance, 60% hail and 8% telephone.

The report also says something about how many taxis belong to telephone networks and that they're very active, so the 8% seems a bit dubious.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:01 pm 
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TDO wrote:
The public attitude survey says that the breakdown is 32% stance, 60% hail and 8% telephone.

The report also says something about how many taxis belong to telephone networks and that they're very active, so the 8% seems a bit dubious.


Yes I noted the breakdown but the figures they produced when broken down work out at only 12% of work coming from Taxi stands.

So any rank observations in the past of which there has only been one is not a true reflection of unmet demand. In fact it only measures 12% of demand.

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JD


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:25 pm 
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I think the problem lies in using the observed figures and extrapolating them through to the unobserved ranks.

About ten ranks were observed, and around 2,500 departures recorded.

Using their methodology, multiplying this by six provides the weekly figure, ie 15,000 for the ranks observed.

So basically they've assumed that the ranks they've observed represents around half the rank departures in Edinburgh, which seems a big assumption given that they've only observed about ten out of ninety ranks.

It all depends on the profile of the ranks they've used, and the assumptions they've used to quantify the 'busyness' of the other ranks, but unless they disclose their methodology in this regard it's impossible to properly critique it, but half of the cab departures from around ten percent of the ranks seems a bit dodgy, unless the ranks they've surveyed are disproportionately busy.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:42 pm 
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TDO wrote:
I think the problem lies in using the observed figures and extrapolating them through to the unobserved ranks.

About ten ranks were observed, and around 2,500 departures recorded.

Using their methodology, multiplying this by six provides the weekly figure, ie 15,000 for the ranks observed.

So basically they've assumed that the ranks they've observed represents around half the rank departures in Edinburgh, which seems a big assumption given that they've only observed about ten out of ninety ranks.

It all depends on the profile of the ranks they've used, and the assumptions they've used to quantify the 'busyness' of the other ranks, but unless they disclose their methodology in this regard it's impossible to properly critique it, but half of the cab departures from around ten percent of the ranks seems a bit dodgy, unless the ranks they've surveyed are disproportionately busy.


I've only glanced at the report so far. I've just printed the first twenty pages out, I'll digest them later.

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:16 am 
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When I discovered the horrendous mistake made by Jacobs consulting in their Liverpool survey in respect of the false information they published regarding Sefton council and the special dispensation which they didn't have for five yearly survey reviews, I decided to dig a little deeper into their methodology.

I had a very long and interesting conversion with Ian Millership one of the chief consultants at Jacobs Birmingham office. Ian is an extremely nice person and he was very helpful in answering the questions I put to him. If you have the Edinburgh Jacobs report you will notice in the section titled document control and under the heading prepared by and reviewed by, Ian is referred to in both sections.

We discussed among other things the tight profit margins surrounding these surveys and how corners have to be cut in order for Jacobs to make a profit. Naturally I was most interested in which corners are actually being cut? It was the precise cutting of corners that contributed to the wrong information being inserted in the Liverpool survey report. I deliberately said "contributed" because there are other relevant factors that should not be overlooked.

The glaring mistake made by Jacobs in the Liverpool report highlighted a distinct lack of legal knowledge of the Taxi trade by those who prepared, reviewed and finally approved the report. It is also surprising that Damien Edwards the Liverpool LO didn't pick up on the error.

When asked how this wrong information found its way into the report I was informed it was supplied by John Thompson the LO of Sefton. Knowing what I know of Mr Thompson I was not prepared to accept that inference at face value. I asked Ian Millership if he or any of his consultants had checked the information as being accurate? The answer was no.

I then asked him if he was aware of any court case outside of Scotland that had even considered the shelf life of a survey? He couldn't think of one.

I then asked him, "under the circumstances does it not seem strange that a court would give special dispensation to one individual authority" to be allowed to measure demand every five years? He said he took the information at face value and never questioned it.

Well I certainly wouldn't take any third party information at face value and I certainly wouldn't attempt to put it into a report as being factual. However, because of the corners being cut Jacobs are prepared to include any information that might make their reports look more substantive. It transpires that their survey reports include unsubstantiated information from third party organisations such as local and national Taxi organisations, neighbouring local authorities and many others. The problem is that all of this information is taken in good faith but at face value and used accordingly.

This is the consequence of low profit margins. Ian tells me that because of the low profit margins it is pointless Jacobs tendering for a contract if there are too many tender applications. This would seem a reasonable assessment.

So why have I posted the following text from the Jacobs Edinburgh report? Well most of what I call incidental information comes from third parties and that includes the council. For those who don't know, Edinburgh council informed me that all their Hackney carriage data has been computerised for over a year. That means If I keyed in plate number 123 I would instantly get all the details of plate number 123. If I did a database search on age I would get a chronological list of vehicles and their age. The point I am making is that the text below highlights certain data appertaining to the Edinburgh hackney carriage fleet. All of this information is held on computer and for Jacobs to obtain the information they would have had to request it from the council. So why did the council pay Jacobs for information that they already had available to them? It would be like me paying you to tell me that my name is John Davies?

Unmet demand surveys are not an exercise to inform the public of how good or bad the local Taxi service is? They are an exercise to help a council keep a preferred policy of restricting the number of Hackney carriages they license? The reason why all this information about driver and vehicle age is published is not because the council doesn't already know these details but because it makes the report look substantive. This is part of the third party information I mentioned earlier.

In the Text below you might wonder why Jacobs didn't use the full 100% statistics that was available to them, instead of using the smaller percentage? After all, the council supplied the statistics to them free of charge and then bought them back again. Perhaps the reason is once again down to the profit margins and the philosophy of time equals money? It is much easier and quicker to quote a selective sample than to give a full unequivocal breakdown.

Challenging a survey report in a court of law in most cases is quite difficult, simply because the presentation is nearly always impressive. Another reason is the independence of the survey. However survey reports are not insurmountable and anyone who knows anything about the Taxi trade and the law could mount a serious challenge to any survey. The Jacobs Edinburgh survey is full of wholes and those wishing to make capital from the data should study it very carefully as there are inconsistencies in the report which are significant.

The text below just highlights one aspect of third party information, which the council supplied to Jacobs only for the council to then buy that information back again.

2.1 Overview

Edinburgh has one of the largest fleets of taxis in the United Kingdom. Over the years, the number of taxis has increased, with the last increase from 1,211 vehicles to the current total of 1,260 taking place after the 2001 Survey.

The taxi fleet is supplemented by nearly 800 private hire cars, with an increase of over 400 vehicles having taken place in the last 4 years. Much of this increase is believed to be related to the airport, where taxi provision is restricted principally to vehicles directly contracted to the airport. At the present time, these vehicles are operated by Airport Onward Travel (part of Easyjet). All airport vehicles have to be licensed by the City of Edinburgh Licensing, although at present 150 are private hire cars and 70 are taxis.

The taxi fleet is principally owned by people who own just one vehicle, but who rent their vehicle to other drivers when not driving it themselves. Within the data available, we found no evidence of vehicle multiple-ownership.

There are some 3,400 taxi drivers, or around 2.7 per taxi, suggesting a very high level of ‘double shifting’ of taxis. There are 1,800 private hire drivers, giving a level of 2.3 drivers per private hire car. The three principal taxi companies in the City account for 80% of the fleet. This is a much higher degree of market concentration than other major cities. All three companies have very active telephone / radio networks which are widely advertised. The remaining 20% of the taxi vehicles are operated by individuals with no link to any radio network. Around 6% of the total taxi fleet operate for the current airport taxi service provider, although their contracts end in December 2005.

There are over 20 private hire companies operating in the City. One firm operates around three fifths of the private hire fleet. Nearly one fifth of the private hire car fleet operates for Airport Onward Travel.

2.2 Vehicle Types

A new licensing condition was recently added which requires all taxis to hold valid European Whole Vehicle Type Approval as an M I vehicle. In addition to the strict ‘London’ vehicle types, this limits the number of taxi styles to three models.

The ubiquitous Fx4 vehicle is the principal exclusion from the range. At the present time, just 10 recent Fx4 vehicles remain, with the last of these having been granted an exemption from this condition until February 2006. A sample of just over 40% of the fleet was taken from the Cab Office manual ledgers. From this sample, just 1% of vehicles are Fx4 style. A further 14% of the taxi fleet are Metrocabs, whilst Txl and Tx2 styles account for 40% and 45% of the fleet respectively. With both Metrocab and
Tx vehicles being of more modern appearance than the Fx, this gives the Edinburgh fleet a very up-to-date appearance. No vehicle type analysis was possible for the private hire car fleet, although it is known that a large proportion of the airport vehicles are estate style. Taxi Provision in the City of Edinburgh, Final Report, July 2005 Page 3 of 48

2.3 Age Profiles

A sample of just over 40% of the taxi fleet information was analysed to identify the age profile for the taxi fleet. The analysis allocated a specific age to each given registration year number or letter, taking account of the recent changes in registration year allocations. The average taxi age in Edinburgh is around 4 years, another result of the M I vehicle type condition. The most frequent plate in the sample equated to a ‘03’
plate, or vehicles around two years old.

The oldest plate identified was a “G”, around 16 years old, but there were very few vehicles earlier than “R” registration. Information was obtained to show the age profile of both taxi and private hire drivers. This is shown in Figure 1. Taxi drivers tend to be older than private hire car drivers. The average age for taxi drivers is 49, whilst private hire car drivers are on average 44 years old. 16% of all taxi drivers are 60 or over compared to 8% of private hire car drivers. 5% of all taxi drivers are over 65 years old (compared to 2% for private hire car drivers).

2.4 Distance Operated by Taxis

Data was provided for a random sample of 5% of the taxi fleet for the last year since their most recent test. The average distance travelled for this sample of vehicles was 227 kilometres per day (kpd), assuming each vehicle operated for a full 365 days. The lowest mileage was 50 kpd, whilst the largest was 390 kpd. Just 8 vehicles clocked over 300 kpd, whilst 11 travelled less than 160 kpd.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:35 am 
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It's quite a long post JD to prove not very much, Jacobs probably did use council figures in their report, they would have, could have, and should have drawn on as many scources of information that was possible, indeed thats exactly what they did do.
You fail to mention all the stake holders that were interviewed and the many hours of video footage taken across the city.
Like I have said before, their report was pretty thourough and anyone wishing to challenge it would have a tough job on their hands.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:08 am 
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Realcabforceforum wrote:
Like I have said before, their report was pretty thourough and anyone wishing to challenge it would have a tough job on their hands.

I'm not sure how many SUD surveys you have read, but the Jacobs one was very poor in comparison to ones the other companies produce.

Mr Jacobs said to JD that the margins were thin, well that goes hand in hand with the evidence of no SUD. :shock:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:52 am 
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Sussex wrote:
Realcabforceforum wrote:
Like I have said before, their report was pretty thourough and anyone wishing to challenge it would have a tough job on their hands.

I'm not sure how many SUD surveys you have read, but the Jacobs one was very poor in comparison to ones the other companies produce.

Mr Jacobs said to JD that the margins were thin, well that goes hand in hand with the evidence of no SUD. :shock:


There's an advert in PHM for tenders for a survey in a sleepy hollow called Eastbourne.Taking bets Sussex?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:38 pm 
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Realcabforceforum wrote:
It's quite a long post JD to prove not very much,


Amongst other things I was highlighting how Jacobs work and their conscientious approach or lack of if in getting their facts right? I assume by your attitude you have already checked all the facts in this report and found them to be correct, would that be the case? Liverpool also checked their report and found the facts to be correct but the problem was that they weren't correct.

Considering the fact that Ian Millership gave a full presentation of the report to Liverpool councillors do you not think he should have been aware of its content?

I'm afraid there is a lot more mileage in this Edinburgh report than you make out and I wouldn't be so hasty in concluding that it is thorough. Your definition of "thorough" might be far removed from my own definition of the word.

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:02 pm 
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jimbo wrote:
There's an advert in PHM for tenders for a survey in a sleepy hollow called Eastbourne.Taking bets Sussex?

I will do it for a grand, can't be fairer than that. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:07 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
jimbo wrote:
There's an advert in PHM for tenders for a survey in a sleepy hollow called Eastbourne.Taking bets Sussex?

I will do it for a grand, can't be fairer than that. :D


Your too biased :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:13 pm 
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Amongst other things I was highlighting how Jacobs work and their conscientious approach or lack of if in getting their facts right? I assume by your attitude you have already checked all the facts in this report and found them to be correct,


I have enough knowledge of the taxi trade in Edinburgh to see that overall the report paints a realistic picture of whats going on, it can never be perfect, nothing is, but to suggest the council just bought their own information back is just plain daft.


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