Taxi Driver Online :: View topic - Consumer's response

I try to stay out of the heat of this 'delimitation debate' due to the fact that as I have said I don't believe a Councillor should control a market by setting numbers, prices or silly rules, apart from basic 'public safety' measures.

What is missed in all this is the need to match demand and supply.

My company has more than enough vehicles to meet our demand and we have a large number of drivers, but getting enough drivers in cars to meet demand at certain times is nearly impossible. WHY?

Firstly because, in an area of high employment, we struggle to find enough drivers who are prepared to take drunks home on Saturday as their chosen method of employment. On a Saturday evening only 40% of my fleet is on the road.

Secondly, how do you predict demand? Last Saturday we covered demand reasonably well with waiting about 15 mins most of evening and 30 at peak. This Saturday we had three more vehicles on the road, so 20% more supply. But we had various bookings (three cars from Twickenham, major corporate wanting 5 cars all over place at midnight) and we were stuffed. 45 mins waiting most of evening and 90 mins at peak.

Now as a company, running a fleet, I can use experience and monitor bookings to 'encourage' extra staff for potential 'busy nights'. How does a town of 'independents' cope? Simple delimitation doesn't mean supply and demand meet.

A method of matching supply with demand is necessary.

Should a Council issue a plate on the basis that it is 'an evening shift' plate. But how is that monitored?

Discuss!

Author:	Sussex [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Consumer's response
I forgot to put this up a while ago, but it gives two views from those that represent our customers; Consumers Association Phil Evans, principal policy adviser at the Consumers' Association, said: "Taxis are an important service for all consumers and a focused and limited set of reforms will ensure that the public get the best of what currently happens, combined with greater provision and wider availability. "A safe and easily accessible taxi service ranks highly in the everyday lives of many consumers. The OFT has recognised that the liberalisation of licensing must not compromise consumer safety and that by lifting entry restrictions this will help starve the illegal market, which depends on the shortage of licensed operators, of trade." National Consumer Council Ed Mayo, chief executive of the National Consumer Council, said: "You don't have to be a mastermind to see that limiting the number of taxis that can operate is bad news for consumers. "Taxis offer a vital public transport service, especially for people who are disabled, on low incomes or elderly. These proposals are an important milestone with the potential to put more licensed cabs on the road - reducing waiting times and enhancing public safety. "So we urge the Department of Transport to change the law and speed the day when no council in England and Wales can restrict the number of cabs licensed to run on its roads. "But we want the government to go further than the OFT's recommendations and explore the case for an easy-to-use and effective redress system for taxi users, and for a social responsibility on taxi firms to provide services during certain hours and, where relevant, in specific outlying areas."

Author:	Nidge2 [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:
As if that will make any difference? Since deregluation in Sheffield waiting times have gone down 60 seconds, not bad for a deregulated area is it?? Less cabs on the road to.

Author:	Sussex [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:
Nidge wrote: As if that will make any difference? Since deregluation in Sheffield waiting times have gone down 60 seconds, not bad for a deregulated area is it?? Less cabs on the road to. Nigel, you should really read your T&G crib sheet better. According to them, taxis numbers have rocketed, and they imply that's a bad thing. Well Ray from Sheffield told TTF1 more times than not, that was rubbish, and he was a busy little bunny. Why, because he was a journeyman, and is now an owner. But you and your kind don't want others to enjoy the freedom of ownership, you just want that for yourselves. Don't do as I do, do as I say.

Author:	Nidge2 [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:
Less cabs on the roads at busier times waiting times reduced by only 60 seconds at weekends.

Author:	Sussex [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:
Nidge wrote: Less cabs on the roads at busier times waiting times reduced by only 60 seconds at weekends. So there will be more cabs out during the day, thus the drivers will be earning less. And when there are customers a plenty, all drivers will be tucked up in bed. I take it neither you, nor the bus-man, went to business school.

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Consumer's response http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=438	Page 1 of 2

Author:	gedmay [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:46 pm ]
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I find it quite ironic that there are two consumer associations. Which gives the better service? a job for the Oft perhaps, possibly we might need more than two. Are they elected, are they subsidised by any one, do they work nights and weekends? I think we should be told. Ged

Author:	captain cab [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:
the one thing i cant fugure out is whats best for the public, its clear that the consumer associations dont know and neither do we. My city delimited 5 years ago, allowing saloon hackneys for the first time in over 20 years. but after 5 years, there is still nothing to show for what was the intention of delimitation. Prior to delimitation there were 200 licensed vehicles, after delimitation there are 200 licensing vehicles. former private hire pick up legally now, in their new and improved hackney saloons, but we still have queues of passengers during the peak periods. if anything the situation is worse now that before delimitation, as the former private hire vehicles tend to work streets ignoring radio customers. Im not an advocate that would say it would or would not work in your area, but there does seem to be a balance between too amny and too few. consumer associations dont know, there just guessing regards captain cab

Author:	Tom Thumb [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:
I try to stay out of the heat of this 'delimitation debate' due to the fact that as I have said I don't believe a Councillor should control a market by setting numbers, prices or silly rules, apart from basic 'public safety' measures. What is missed in all this is the need to match demand and supply. My company has more than enough vehicles to meet our demand and we have a large number of drivers, but getting enough drivers in cars to meet demand at certain times is nearly impossible. WHY? Firstly because, in an area of high employment, we struggle to find enough drivers who are prepared to take drunks home on Saturday as their chosen method of employment. On a Saturday evening only 40% of my fleet is on the road. Secondly, how do you predict demand? Last Saturday we covered demand reasonably well with waiting about 15 mins most of evening and 30 at peak. This Saturday we had three more vehicles on the road, so 20% more supply. But we had various bookings (three cars from Twickenham, major corporate wanting 5 cars all over place at midnight) and we were stuffed. 45 mins waiting most of evening and 90 mins at peak. Now as a company, running a fleet, I can use experience and monitor bookings to 'encourage' extra staff for potential 'busy nights'. How does a town of 'independents' cope? Simple delimitation doesn't mean supply and demand meet. A method of matching supply with demand is necessary. Should a Council issue a plate on the basis that it is 'an evening shift' plate. But how is that monitored? Discuss!

Author:	Guest [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:
By restricting the numbers on the H/C side of the trade, you are encouraging drivers to enter the trade as P/H. A P/H driver MUST only do work that YOU give him whereas a H/C can simply turn off his radio and go work the ranks. Do you find that when you start running that late you start getting "blanks", do your drivers then get so sick they either go home or go illegally plying for hire. I allways found that setting a voluntry shift system works best for weekend peak times. If a driver states that he is coming in on a Friday then I would take work for him, however if a driver didn't say he was coming in but turned out he would only get the phone work the "shift" drivers couldn't cover. I would also insist that your corporate customers give proper notice for a more than 1 car booking so that they could be more assured of punctuality. The thing is that if you have loads of work and all your cars have the ability to legally work the streets when you start running late those cars will start working the streets, I drove taxis for 12 years and never once did any passenger complain that I was late, but that was because I only did street work. When consumer groups talk about taxis and the waiting times and availability they are commenting on the P/H sector as well as the H/C, this is because in the stupid 1976 Act it allows P/H operators to call their businesses ******* TAXIS if they have at least one H/C working there. So the real problem isn't all about numbers its about recognition of with whom the public are dealing with, neither M&R or the OFT raised that question but the Select Committee did. B. Lucky

Author:	Tom Thumb [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:
All the cars on the road on weekend evenings are hackney! I only have PH for plate exemption on Executive Cars. The corporate booked early enough, never going to limited such a 'big spend' customer. Don't get blanks cos we give accurate time predictions of pick up, thus we aren't running late, just we have a waiting time for availability.

Author:	Guest [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:
Tom Thumb wrote: I try to stay out of the heat of this 'delimitation debate' due to the fact that as I have said I don't believe a Councillor should control a market by setting numbers, prices or silly rules, apart from basic 'public safety' measures. What is missed in all this is the need to match demand and supply. My company has more than enough vehicles to meet our demand and we have a large number of drivers, but getting enough drivers in cars to meet demand at certain times is nearly impossible. WHY? Firstly because, in an area of high employment, we struggle to find enough drivers who are prepared to take drunks home on Saturday as their chosen method of employment. On a Saturday evening only 40% of my fleet is on the road. Secondly, how do you predict demand? Last Saturday we covered demand reasonably well with waiting about 15 mins most of evening and 30 at peak. This Saturday we had three more vehicles on the road, so 20% more supply. But we had various bookings (three cars from Twickenham, major corporate wanting 5 cars all over place at midnight) and we were stuffed. 45 mins waiting most of evening and 90 mins at peak. Now as a company, running a fleet, I can use experience and monitor bookings to 'encourage' extra staff for potential 'busy nights'. How does a town of 'independents' cope? Simple delimitation doesn't mean supply and demand meet. A method of matching supply with demand is necessary. Should a Council issue a plate on the basis that it is 'an evening shift' plate. But how is that monitored? Discuss! A council is not allowed to issue a plate and dictate times it has to be used, nor can it stipulate it must not use ranks. what they can do is issue a plate for 12 months 6 months or 3 months Geoff

Author:	Sussex [ Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:17 am ]
Post subject:
Anonymous wrote: what they can do is issue a plate for 12 months 6 months or 3 months I'm not so sure about that, I think the council would be making a rod for their own backs. Best let the market decide.

Author:	Guest [ Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:
Anonymous wrote: I allways found that setting a voluntry shift system works best for weekend peak times. If a driver states that he is coming in on a Friday then I would take work for him, however if a driver didn't say he was coming in but turned out he would only get the phone work the "shift" drivers couldn't cover. B. Lucky The problem with voluntry, is that it needs volunteers. The problem with cab drivers (and PH) is that everyone else is always getting a better job. good point though regards Captain Cab

Author:	Andy7 [ Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:
Bugger. I just lost my post on this subject, and it was such a good post you would have all agreed with it, and it would have sorted out all the problems discussed and all the problems in the trade full stop.

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Author:	Andy7 [ Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:
Bugger. I just lost my post on this subject, and it was such a good post you would have all agreed with it, and it would have sorted out all the problems discussed and all the problems in the trade full stop.