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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:42 am 
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yes the l.o does hold a grudge against me mainly because i won't kiss her butt when she says so we are actually building an harrassment charge against her due to her completely petty behavior over the past year incidentaly she is due to leave soon and has been heard to say she wants to "go out in a blaze of glory" she has been "nicking" drivers left right and centre on petty charges for months now and me and my business partner are not prepared to take this laying down also when she alledges my wife was driving the car was parked at my mum and dads house with her standing by it (wife) i happened to be in switzerland at the time, regards

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The truth is your wife can drive any vehicle on the public road providing she has a UK drivers licence for that class of vehicle. Taxis are members of the class of vehicles for which the excise duty is the General Rate ( vehicles up to 3500kg), and her UK drivers licence would cover usage of a vehicle within that class.
The licences granted by LA's are obsolete, having no substance, as any rights regarding usage of a vehicle on the public road are already assigned by virtue of the two (driver and vehicle) madatory licences. Explain that to your LO and see if your LO would then like to contest that fact in court.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:16 pm 
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Jeff Daggers, what??? Benson v Boyce etc!! Caselaw can't be overturned until new caselaw does. Licensed vehicle, licensed driver only unless I am out of date on something.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:08 pm 
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There was just such a thread on here a few weeks back when someone got done whilst out on a road test without a badge.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:49 pm 
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grahjh4 wrote:
yes the l.o does hold a grudge against me mainly because i won't kiss her butt

Which makes it even more daft that you let her catch your wife driving the cab. :?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:51 pm 
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jeff daggers wrote:
The truth is your wife can drive any vehicle on the public road providing she has a UK drivers licence for that class of vehicle. Taxis are members of the class of vehicles for which the excise duty is the General Rate ( vehicles up to 3500kg), and her UK drivers licence would cover usage of a vehicle within that class.
The licences granted by LA's are obsolete, having no substance, as any rights regarding usage of a vehicle on the public road are already assigned by virtue of the two (driver and vehicle) madatory licences. Explain that to your LO and see if your LO would then like to contest that fact in court.

Rubbish. [-X

Only a cab driver can drive a cab (other than a repairer of cars), now you make think otherwise, but thankfully we have Law Lords that agree. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:11 pm 
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject:

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jeff daggers wrote:

The truth is your wife can drive any vehicle on the public road providing she has a UK drivers licence for that class of vehicle. Taxis are members of the class of vehicles for which the excise duty is the General Rate ( vehicles up to 3500kg), and her UK drivers licence would cover usage of a vehicle within that class.
The licences granted by LA's are obsolete, having no substance, as any rights regarding usage of a vehicle on the public road are already assigned by virtue of the two (driver and vehicle) madatory licences. Explain that to your LO and see if your LO would then like to contest that fact in court.

Rubbish.

Only a cab driver can drive a cab (other than a repairer of cars), now you make think otherwise, but thankfully we have Law Lords that agree.

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I am afraid Sussex you are wrong - my own partner can, and does legitimately drive my vehicle. Any way what entitlements does your LA as a licenser assign to you as the licensee when they grant you a licence, as either a driver or a vehicle owner using the public road?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:28 pm 
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jeff daggers wrote:
I am afraid Sussex you are wrong - my own partner can, and does legitimately drive my vehicle. Any way what entitlements does your LA as a licenser assign to you as the licensee when they grant you a licence, as either a driver or a vehicle owner using the public road?

We could go on about this for ages, but there's not enough hours left in my life for me to spare, so I will simply ask you why no-one has ever challenged your view of the law?

Why some illegal unlicensed minicab in London hasn't used that as an excuse against prosecution?

And why Yates-v-Gates and Benson-v-Boyce (both cases on here somewhere) went the way that I see the law, and not the way you view the law?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:24 pm 
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In Sefton when a vehicle passes the test it is issued a certificate of fitness , not a MoT certificate, which the council can legally do, now I know that in other areas vehicles are issues a MoT certificate....... but in all areas as far as I know they are then licensed by the appropriate council, this is then a bylaw they are operateing under . local issue.. if it states that that vehicle can only be driven by a licensed driver of that council, then a unlicensed driver is breaking the conditions of Licence and can be prosecuted.
it is up to the licensing officer to prove that your wife was driving your vehicle at that particular time, if at the time they have stated she was on holiday or at a wedding then they have obviously made an mistake.....

the 1976 miscellaneous act had to be adopted by each council if they wished for it to apply, if they have not adopted it then they are not forced to implement it, I believe some councils did not adopt it,regarding private hire.

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:34 pm 
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We could go on about this for ages, but there's not enough hours left in my life for me to spare, so I will simply ask you why no-one has ever challenged your view of the law?

Why some illegal unlicensed minicab in London hasn't used that as an excuse against prosecution?

And why Yates-v-Gates and Benson-v-Boyce (both cases on here somewhere) went the way that I see the law, and not the way you view the law?
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Well Sussex,
I can only say that others have evidently not made the effort to ascertain the truth, relying on information supplied by others who are equally misinformed. Minicabs are not unlicensed, both the keeper of any such vehicle and the driver are licensed to use the public road by virtue of their DVLA licences. So again I ask what entitlements are assigned to a keeper or driver by the licences granted to them by any LA? - answer please, because without a coherent reply to that question, the concept of Mechanically propelled vehicles being licensed to use a public road by a LA is falacious.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:22 pm 
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falacious, isn't that something to do with a pr i ck? If you catch my drift. :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:42 am 
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Sussex wrote:
jeff daggers wrote:
The truth is your wife can drive any vehicle on the public road providing she has a UK drivers licence for that class of vehicle. Taxis are members of the class of vehicles for which the excise duty is the General Rate ( vehicles up to 3500kg), and her UK drivers licence would cover usage of a vehicle within that class.
The licences granted by LA's are obsolete, having no substance, as any rights regarding usage of a vehicle on the public road are already assigned by virtue of the two (driver and vehicle) madatory licences. Explain that to your LO and see if your LO would then like to contest that fact in court.

Rubbish. [-X

Only a cab driver can drive a cab (other than a repairer of cars), now you make think otherwise, but thankfully we have Law Lords that agree. :wink:


As recently as this year it was held that only a LICENSED DRIVER ie one liicensed by the LA can drive a cab. U make like to think you are above the law u aint


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:41 am 
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We should all know by now that you need a badge to drive a licensed hackney or private hire vehicle. There are exceptions in law in respect of qualified examiners but a spouse does not fit into that category unless of course she is a qualified examiner herself?

Therefore in this situation it will have to be proven that the wife was driving the vehicle as alleged. The issue that remains is the standard of the burden of proof.

We only have one version of events so until we get the other version we can't really pass judgment, can we?

Regards

JD

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:51 am 
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Legislation.

The principal enactments relating to road traffic are the Road Traffic Act 1988, the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 and the Road Traffic (Consequential Provisions) Act 1988 ('the Road Traffic Acts'), which came into force on 15 May 1989 and which consolidated earlier legislation.

These Acts have been amended and extended by the Road Traffic Act 1991.

Many detailed provisions are contained in subordinate legislation. Nothing in these Acts authorises a person to use on a road a vehicle so constructed or used as to cause a public or private nuisance, or affects the liability, whether under statute or common law, of the driver or owner so using such a vehicle.

Separate enactments govern the taxation, licensing and registration of all road vehicles and the operation and special licensing of goods vehicles and passenger vehicles. There is also legislation containing powers for controlling traffic, parking, speed limits and other matters.

Some statutes remain in force which were enacted when road traffic was principally horse drawn. The older statutes include the provisions of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 relating to hackney carriages, a number of provisions applying in London, principally those relating to hackney carriages or cabs, and some minor provisions relating to stage carriages.
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1 'The Road Traffic Acts' means the Road Traffic Act 1988, the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 and the Road Traffic (Consequential Provisions) Act 1988 so far as it reproduces the effect of the repealed earlier legislation: Road Traffic Act 1988 s 192(1); Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 s 98(1); Road Traffic (Consequential Provisions) Act 1988 s 1(1).

2 Road Traffic Act 1988 s 197(2); Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 s 99(2); Road Traffic (Consequential Provisions) Act 1988 s 8(2).

3 For the repealed enactments see the Road Traffic (Consequential Provisions) Act 1988 s 3(1), Sch 1 Pt I; for consequential amendments see s 4, Schs 2, 3; and for transitional provisions, including savings for things done or begun under repealed enactments and the construction of references see ss 2, 5, Sch 4. Certain enactments remain in part unrepealed: see eg the Road Traffic Act 1930 Pt V (ss 101–109) (as amended) (see para 910 post), which deals with the powers of local authorities to operate public service vehicles.

4 As to the exercise of powers to make regulations see para 39 post.

5 For the meaning of 'road' see para 6 post.

6 As to public and private nuisance and liability for it see highways, streets and bridges vol 21 (2004 Reissue) paras 322–339; and as to the distinction between public and private nuisance see nuisance vol 34 (Reissue) paras 5, 7.

7 For the meaning of 'driver' see para 7 post.

8 For the meaning of 'owner' see para 7 post.

9 Road Traffic (Consequential Provisions) Act 1988 s 7. Similar provision has been made in respect of the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 (see s 85 (applied to the Transport Act 1985 Pts I, II (ss 1–46) (as amended) by s 128); the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (see s 143); and the Goods Vehicles Licensing of Operators) Act 1995 (see s 54).

10 See the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994; and para 290 et seq post.

11 See the Goods Vehicles (Licensing of Operators) Act 1995; and para 960 et seq post. The Road Traffic Act 1988 also includes provisions as to the parking of heavy commercial vehicles (see ss 19, 20; and paras 19, 700 post), the testing, plating and type approval of goods vehicles (see ss 49–65A (as amended); and para 428 et seq post) and the licensing of drivers of large goods vehicles (see Pt IV (ss 110–122) (as amended); and para 271 et seq post).

The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 contains provisions restricting the use on roads of heavy commercial vehicles (see para 9 post): see s 122(2)(b) (see para 501 post); and the reserve powers of the Secretary of State in s 124(1), Sch 9 Pt I para 5 (as amended) (see para 504 post). Further legislation is contained in the International Road Haulage Permits Act 1975 (see para 975 post), and certain provisions of the Transport Act 1968: see further para 1021 et seq post. As to stamp duty under the Transport Act 1968 see s 160 (amended by the Finance Act 1973 s 59(7), Sch 22 Pt V; the Transport Act 1985 s 57(6), Sch 3 para 20; the Finance Act 1988 s 148, Sch 14 Pt XI; and the Railways Act 1993 s 152(3), Sch 14). As to expenses paid out of moneys provided by Parliament under the Transport Act 1968 see s 163.

12 See the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 and the Transport Act 1985, which continue the system of licensing under the traffic commissioners which was originally enacted under the Road Traffic Act 1930: see para 823 et seq post. The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 provides for the regulation of the use of highways by public service vehicles: see s 19 (as amended): and para 535 post.

13 See the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984; the Road Traffic Act 1991; and para 485 et seq post. The operation of tramcars is, in general, controlled by the Tramways Act 1870: see paras 1174–1180 post.

14 Ie the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 ss 37–66, 68 (all as amended): see para 1056 et seq post.

15 See the London Hackney Carriage Act 1831, the London Hackney Carriages Act 1843, the London Hackney Carriages Act 1850, the London Hackney Carriage Act 1853, the London Hackney Carriage (No 2) Act 1853, the Metropolitan Public Carriage Act 1869, the London Cab Act 1896, and the London Cab and Stage Carriage Act 1907. As to the law relating to hackney carriages see para 1055 et seq post.

16 See eg the Stage Carriages Act 1832, which is repealed except as it applies to the Blackpool tramway system. Provision limited to animal drawn vehicles is found in the Highways Act 1959 s 309, Sch 22; continued in effect by the Highways Act 1980 s 340(1).
UPDATE
2 The legislation

note 15—London Hackney Carriage (No 2) Act 1853 repealed: Statute Law (Repeals) Act 2004.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:59 am 
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Exemptions from requirement of test certificates for specified vehicles.

• (16) any of certain hackney carriages or cabs;

• (17) a private hire car licensed by a local authority;

18 Motor Vehicles (Tests) Regulations 1981, SI 1981/1694, reg 6(1)(xviii), which is expressed to be subject to reg 6(4) (see note 20 infra), and which refers to a hackney carriage or cab in respect of which there is in force a licence to ply for hire under the Metropolitan Public Carriage Act 1869 or the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 or any similar local statutory provision.

19 'Private hire car' means a motor vehicle which is not a vehicle licensed to ply for hire under the statutory or local statutory provisions applicable to hackney carriages (see note 18 supra) but which is kept for the purpose of being let out for hire with a driver for the carrying of passengers in such circumstance that it does not require to be licensed to ply for hire under those provisions: Motor Vehicles (Tests) Regulations 1981, SI 1981/1694, reg 6(5).

20 Ibid reg 6(1)(xix). These exemptions for hackney carriages and private hire cars do not obtain unless the authority which issued the licence holds a certificate issued by the Secretary of State evidencing that he is satisfied that the issue of the licence is subject to the vehicle first passing an annual test relating to the prescribed statutory requirements (defined in para 431 post); and where a hackney carriage or cab was first used more than one year before the licence was issued or a private hire car was first used more than three years before the licence was issued, the authority which issued the licence also issued to the licensee a certificate recording that on the date on which the certificate was issued that authority was, as a result of a test, satisfied that the prescribed statutory requirements were satisfied: reg 6(4). 'Test' means an examination of a vehicle in relation to the prescribed statutory requirements conducted by a person appointed to act as an inspector under what is now the Road Traffic Act 1988 s 45, or acting on behalf of a person so authorised, or by a person on behalf of a police authority: Motor Vehicles (Tests) Regulations 1981, SI 1981/1694, reg 6(5) (definition amended by SI 1983/1434).
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:18 pm 
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JD wrote:
• (17) a private hire car licensed by a local authority;

:D :D

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