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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:18 pm 
T. wrote:
John Davies wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Your house and every other has gone up in price/ "value" that does not mean you have made any real gains. Ask any financial adviser where to invest and they will ask you what you are looking for "growth" or "income" from your investment. Taxis are an "income" investment, add up your income from your plate over 20 years and compare that to the "growth" in your house, now spot the best investment. Even if your plate is now worthless you cannot disregard the income because you have already spent it and it's not a lump sum.
Negative equity is not a short term scenario if you lose your house.


So If I bought a property for 30 grand 24 years ago and it is now worth 300 grand, in your estimation there has been no real gain. If I let that property out for x amount of pounds each month over that 24 year period you are saying there has been no income?

You should re evaluate your thinking. Investing in property and re letting is far more commercially sound than speculating large amounts of money in a Taxi License plate.

I bought my plate for job security not as a long term investment. It has stood me in good stead for many years and it owes me nothing. However, you can travel twelve miles down the road and you can get a plate for free. I have a very good friend who actually owns his own vehicle in an unrestricted area and I can assure you he is making as much if not more than me at weekends.

Nowadays, buying a plate for 50 grand and thinking that the 50 grand is as safe as houses is complete and utter fantasy. Times have changed and they will keep on changing.

Sussex has a slogan at the end of his posts, which says “Not long now” I don’t know how long it will be before the whole of England and Wales is De restricted but eventually it will come, if you don’t believe it will ever come in your lifetime then it is understandable why you take the stance that you do. However, for those of us who have a slightly different crystal ball than yourself we think it is inevitable.

Quote:
Still no answer to the question, what other business could you invest in with £25k that has the same potential?


I think your trying to pick my brains now lol

I have an ex cab driver friend who went into the shoe business, he speculated a thousand pounds and ended up doubling his money; he has never looked back since that day. He now makes a very decent living from selling shoes and he wouldn’t entertain coming back into the Cab Game. He didn’t have to part with no 50 grand. I have another friend who went into the spectacle frames business he did the same thing. Bought A thousand pounds of frames wholesale and he also more than doubled his money. So you don’t need a large amount of money to make a decent living all you need is a little bit of imagination and a lot of get up and go.


I have a couple of friends who twenty years ago went into the Estate agent business, at the time they new nothing at all about the business or indeed property markets but they were very good salesmen.

They rented a shop on the main highway and started selling and letting property mainly houses. So from knowing nothing about property management they instantly became Estate agents. From there they grew the business and they are now both millionaires. There is nothing stopping you doing the same.

Has that information given you a little incentive to branch out on your own and apply yourself to something other than driving people from A to B?

Best wishes

JD


Reply.
Either you don't read my posts fully or you are diliberately distorting what I have said and then rewriting the same thing in your own words.
The main point I made was that you buy a plate to secure an income not for growth. That is clear in my post but you have recycled it as your own thoughts.
The original question was from someone thinking about buying a plate with redundacy money, not borrowing as you distorted it.
Why have'nt you sold your plate if you are so certain and doing other than driving people from A to B.
Your example of buying a house for income is another crock, the comparison is as stupid as buying a plate and not driving.
What do you expect to gain from dereg ? You are so keen to see it happen I assume you will benefit from it.


T
you are a bit shallow mate and lack forsight,
not all look for benefits in lines we advocate, we can see that premiums actually colour the way service is delivered, look at Brighton and Hove and how cartels are used to protect premiums.

well thats open throughout this land there are rackets working, read on here oooohhh taxis should not have radios, this is a taxi job thats a private hire job.

there should be no private hire market it should all be taxis but dinasaurs are stopping progress.

another decade and taxis and private hire as we know them will all be gone!

Geoff


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:32 pm 
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Location: 1066 Country
Cgull wrote:
Anyone who buys a plate at the moment is as daft as a brush.
That aside mine is avaible for £35000 +.
Any offers please. :D


A very valid point Mr Cgull.

Perhaps those who think the end of quotas is not going to happen should make you an offer. Particularly those who still think it's a sound investment.

Or maybe they are just trying to confuse those not in the know, whilst trying desperately to sell their plates to them. :(

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:40 pm 
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Location: 1066 Country
T. wrote:
The industry is desperatley short of drivers now, who is going to drive the extra vehicles ?


Is it not surprise that in some areas are short of drivers, when this trade says to potential drivers "come and join us, but on the condition you drive the vehicle we say, and you work the hours we say".

Oh, and you pay fortunes for the privilege, whilst always being grateful for the opportunity. :(

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:46 pm 
John Davies wrote:
T. wrote:
Risk and Gamble are exactly the same thing, to take a risk is to gamble.


I thought I had already explained my opinion of calculated risk against a pure Gamble. If it didn’t register then I can’t be held responsible for that.

Quote:
How do Bookies, Casinos stay in business that is pure gamble by your definition and yet they profit year after year.


I wasn’t aware I had brought Casinos and Bookmakers into the argument but if you are referring that both those gaming industries are a pure Gamble then you obviously don’t know how those industries operate.

I do know how they “operate” and I would never class them as a gamble. So even though you yourself are of the opinion that a Calculated risk and a Gamble are the very same, please don’t infer that I share your opinion because I certainly do not.

If you want an education on how the Gaming industry works I would be more than happy to
Enlighten you. Your inference that they are a Gamble just highlights your lack of understanding of Bookmakers and Casinos.

Quote:
Insurance companies gamble that you will die before they pay out more in pension than you put in. You do not understand a thing about risk and probabillity.


Where do you get these crazy ideas from? lol

Insurance companies use risk assessment, this risk assessment takes many forms, too numerous to mention but at the end of the day it comes down to probabilities. The probabilities of my house being broken into or me having an accident or the plane I am travelling in crashing, or the likelihood of my house flooding or falling down. They take a calculated risk no matter what policy is taken out, whether it be life insurance, car insurance or whatever, the higher the risk factor equals a higher premium. It’s as simple as that.

In insurance everything is calculated, nothing is left to chance. That’s why the odds are in their favour. Insurance companies know that a certain percentage of losses will occur each year, they fix their percentages accordingly, its all a percentage game, same as Bookmaking and Casinos but I suppose all that is a little over your head.

Quote:
You have moved the goal posts again on the original question, you are now talking about borrowing £50k, that is a different proposition from using redundancy money to fund future income. How can you have a sensible debate if you keep changing the question to fit you answer.
The question is what business can you buy for £25K that is comparable to a taxi ?


Wasn’t it you who mentioned 50K did you not say the following statement?

Quote:
No-one has yet suggested an alternative business that offers the same immediate return, an established customer base etc, for less than £50k.


If it was meant to read something different then you should have said so at the time. If you make a statement like the one you made above, you can only expect us mere mortals to respond to what is actually written.

Quote:
20 years ago the banks would not lend against a plate, as you said "it has no value in law" you had to have some other collateral, a house or endowment policy etc. and no bank will lend you money to buy property unless you have an income to repay the loan. The whole bank manager scenario is a crock. Banks use a credit scoring system they don't care what the money is for, they lend to those that are the most likely to pay back, amounts over £10k are covered by bad debt insurance that the bank takes out and the borrower pays for. Insurance companies, the stock market, bond markets, commodities its all gambling. Banks cannot leave the money in the vaults doing nothing, inflation will eat away at it, the same with the £25k redundency money, where else could you buy an income of level you would get from working a taxi for that sort of money.
JD your thinking is almost as bad as "sussex" but for the opposite reason.


What I actually said was that over 20 years ago some banks would take into account the plate being an asset; indeed here in Manchester many plates were bought through financiers on the strength of the Value of the plate and not by having to re-mortgage their home. All that changed after 1986 when the 85 act became law.

It would appear that you have a fairytale notion that Banks lend out large amounts of money to any Tom Dick or Harry without security. You will be able to get a small unsecured loan of ten grand or so on the basis that you are credit worthy but when it comes down to a self employed cabbie borrowing 50k on an unsecured loan then I’m afraid you don’t know very much about Banks and their criteria for lending.

The first thing they will look at is your income and your job status. They have to be satisfied that you are earning enough money to repay the loan, they also have to be satisfied that the job you are doing satisfies their lending criteria. They will look into your bank account details to see how it has been run over a period of time and then they will let you know if your unsecured loan application has been successful. If you want to go to a private lender and bypass the bank you can do it over the phone, they will access your credit worthiness and tell you within five minutes if you’re successful. But don’t hold your breath.

Finally you mention redundancy money. Why you never mentioned this before I don’t know. But tell me; in what locality will this mythical person invest his 25 grand? Have you found a restricted area where cabs and plates are being sold for 25 grand? Do all those wishing to buy a Cab and plate for 25k have to pull up stumps and migrate there? Can you assure us that this locality will not deregulate this year next year or anytime in the near future. If it does can those that invested their 25k come to you for compensation because of your miscalculated reasoning? I am very much looking forward to your advice as to where prospective owners can buy a cab and plate for 25k.

In the present climate why would a person wish to speculate 25 grand on a plate when they can jockey for someone else or drive their own car on private hire? The earnings are more or less comparable.


Best wishes

JD


Reply.
I mentioned casino and bookies as en example of gambling to illistrate that all gambling is risk assment and probilities. These are not "crazey ideals", I am amazed at your display of stupidity, ask an insurance assesor, or an actuary. You said "in insurance nothing is left to chance" utter crap, there is no way anyone could calculate how many people will die, how many cars will crash, how many houses get broken into, that isw the most ridiculous thing on the whole forum. They use data to predict the likelyhood of events and the bigger the sample the better prediction, but it is never exact. That risk, the unknown element is the risk, the gamble. Apply that to buying a plate:-
Cost:Potential income:likelyhood of dereg before you get you money back, that is risk assesment.
The same process as insurance companies, bookies, casinos.
There are plenty of areas where you can buy a plate for under £25K, about 5 changed hand in this area this year. The speed LA move dereg is very unlikley in the next 12 months, by which time those that bought plates will have got their money back.
Again you have repeated back to me in your own words exactly what I said in my post about the banks, they will lend to those they think will pay it back, the amount will depend on the status of the applicant, they use a credit scoring system and have done for years.
Your Luddite blinkered thinking is the millstone around the neck of most taxi drivers, who think scrapping a living from a plate is running a businees.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:06 pm 
John.
Being a taxi driver which encompases Luddenden home of the Luddites lets explain what Luddites were.

In the olden days the cloth pieces were made in cotteges of the hamlets, the plutocrats started to build mills with new machinery that could produce much more cloth than the cottages, and the Luddites went to smash the machinery.

not quite the same here.

I will tell a wartime joke that has significance to the problem we have.

during the war a general said to 2 young soldiers, keep gaurd and if you see the enemy comming wake us up, for every one you kill we will give you 10 shillings.

later at twilight one of the soldiers said to his mate, keep quiey dont wake the others there is a couple of million quid comming over the hill.

I bet those soldiers were taxidrivers beffore they took the Queens shilling,
beccause that is thier thinking, there is a demand they could never satisfy
they are in thier element, very destructive I sometimes wonder if they see a drunken smash if they think they have responsibility, because thats what happens other people use dubious means to get home.

Luddenden IS NOW A TEST BED FOR TRANSPORTATION EXPERIMENTS, the new yellow school bus transport scheme was tested out here and I could tell you of some hairaising mistakes that were made, before success dawned.this scheme was funded with about £250,000

At the moment there are buses with cycle racks on thier back in another experiment, low floor disabled access this scheme is about a million and a quarter, feeding the main routes, and moving from stations.

I have had a bit of feedback and again hairraising mistakes to sort out but they will be.

A local taxi firm has won a tender of £850,000 to develop a satelite taxi bus service, more of this later, but the scheme starts later this year and we will be monitoring this.

What I can say is restriction in numbers is hampering the taxi experiment and the firm and the government are not best pleased about it but will get over the problem.

because in the end progress cannot be stopped, but those that try are examined and in the end the rules will be changed, because they have to be.

Public transport including taxis are entering a new phase, the dinosaurs will be slayed as they have throughout history, because people will be moved from a to b at thier will to save resourses increase efficiency and cut the car use.

it is a must.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:17 am 
JD.
If insurance companies don't gamble how come thousands of Lloyds Names lost millions ?

T.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:39 am 
Yorkie wrote:
John.
Being a taxi driver which encompases Luddenden home of the Luddites lets explain what Luddites were.

In the olden days the cloth pieces were made in cotteges of the hamlets, the plutocrats started to build mills with new machinery that could produce much more cloth than the cottages, and the Luddites went to smash the machinery.

not quite the same here.

I will tell a wartime joke that has significance to the problem we have.

during the war a general said to 2 young soldiers, keep gaurd and if you see the enemy comming wake us up, for every one you kill we will give you 10 shillings.

later at twilight one of the soldiers said to his mate, keep quiey dont wake the others there is a couple of million quid comming over the hill.

I bet those soldiers were taxidrivers beffore they took the Queens shilling,
beccause that is thier thinking, there is a demand they could never satisfy
they are in thier element, very destructive I sometimes wonder if they see a drunken smash if they think they have responsibility, because thats what happens other people use dubious means to get home.

Luddenden IS NOW A TEST BED FOR TRANSPORTATION EXPERIMENTS, the new yellow school bus transport scheme was tested out here and I could tell you of some hairaising mistakes that were made, before success dawned.this scheme was funded with about £250,000

At the moment there are buses with cycle racks on thier back in another experiment, low floor disabled access this scheme is about a million and a quarter, feeding the main routes, and moving from stations.

I have had a bit of feedback and again hairraising mistakes to sort out but they will be.

A local taxi firm has won a tender of £850,000 to develop a satelite taxi bus service, more of this later, but the scheme starts later this year and we will be monitoring this.

What I can say is restriction in numbers is hampering the taxi experiment and the firm and the government are not best pleased about it but will get over the problem.

because in the end progress cannot be stopped, but those that try are examined and in the end the rules will be changed, because they have to be.

Public transport including taxis are entering a new phase, the dinosaurs will be slayed as they have throughout history, because people will be moved from a to b at thier will to save resourses increase efficiency and cut the car use.

it is a must.


Reply.
Yes most people know the history of Luddites, but the modern use of the expression is aimed at those that cling to outdated methods and think they can hold back progress.
We are in a time of change and developement and if this forum helps to inform and educate then it will serve a useful purpose. Your input about the experiments in your area is what I want to read about not whinning from "Sussex" because he can't get a free plate, his moronic byeline "not long now" says it all. He can't wait for the destruction of the trade so he can shout "told you so". There is far to much negativity, highlighting the short commimgs and wrongdoings of colleagues in an attempt to make themselves look better. I don't want it "swept under the carpet" but there are far to many that celebrate their outrage at the misdeeds of other.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:46 am 
Sussex wrote:
T. wrote:
The industry is desperatley short of drivers now, who is going to drive the extra vehicles ?


Is it not surprise that in some areas are short of drivers, when this trade says to potential drivers "come and join us, but on the condition you drive the vehicle we say, and you work the hours we say".

Oh, and you pay fortunes for the privilege, whilst always being grateful for the opportunity. :(


The majority of the working population are told when and where and what to use at work and most people are grateful to have a job.
Unlike you the majority realise if you want something you have to work for it, they don't expect handouts or think they are owed a living.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
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Location: 1066 Country
Anonymous wrote:
The majority of the working population are told when and where and what to use at work and most people are grateful to have a job.
Unlike you the majority realise if you want something you have to work for it, they don't expect handouts or think they are owed a living.


By majority I assume you mean of employed working population, as opposed to the 95% plus of drivers in this trade that are self-employed.

By all means tell drivers when and when not to work, and what and what not to drive. But then don't belly-ache about the shortage of drivers.

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IDFIMH


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:04 pm 
Sussex wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The majority of the working population are told when and where and what to use at work and most people are grateful to have a job.
Unlike you the majority realise if you want something you have to work for it, they don't expect handouts or think they are owed a living.


By majority I assume you mean of employed working population, as opposed to the 95% plus of drivers in this trade that are self-employed.

By all means tell drivers when and when not to work, and what and what not to drive. But then don't belly-ache about the shortage of drivers.


What a totally pointless and idiotic reply. By drivers I assume you do not mean plate holders/owner-drivers. The 95% that are "self-employed" are in reality employees, they are "self-employed" because they and their employers think that there are tax and NI advantages to working that way. It is a boss-employee relationship where the owner or plate holder dictates the terms. That is the driver shortage I was referring to, which is also a problem for buses, coaches, HGV etc. There is a labour shortage in this country. That is not a "belly-ache" it is a fact.
I cannot decide on where you are a complete moron or just act that way to illicit replies to your numbskull posts. You obviously gain some childish pleasure in answering every post on ever subject with some attention seeking drivel.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:14 pm 
I have a driver but I dont want to employ him. That means extra nat insurance and paid holidays.
No thank you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:03 pm 
For Mr. J. Davies.
From the dictionary.
GAMBLE:1. place a bet on:stake.
2. risk: hazard, speculate, something of uncertain outcome.
RISK:n, possibility of harm, loss etc: gamble: chance. vt, take a chance on: gamble: hazard.

Those are the exact definitions from a contempary dictionary, I think that more than proves the point that risk and gamble are by definition the SAME.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:27 pm 
Cgull wrote:
I have a driver but I dont want to employ him. That means extra nat insurance and paid holidays.
No thank you.


The goverment wants everyone to be employed and is trying to eliminate self-employed status as they did in most of the building trade. It is yet another item that will have to deal with along with working hours directives etc, but these things are only bringing the taxi trade into line with other industries and although painful in the short term if in the long term we get the recognition and respect an industry this size deserves it will be for the better.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:55 am 
T. wrote:
Yorkie wrote:
John.
Being a taxi driver which encompases Luddenden home of the Luddites lets explain what Luddites were.

In the olden days the cloth pieces were made in cotteges of the hamlets, the plutocrats started to build mills with new machinery that could produce much more cloth than the cottages, and the Luddites went to smash the machinery.

not quite the same here.

I will tell a wartime joke that has significance to the problem we have.

during the war a general said to 2 young soldiers, keep gaurd and if you see the enemy comming wake us up, for every one you kill we will give you 10 shillings.

later at twilight one of the soldiers said to his mate, keep quiey dont wake the others there is a couple of million quid comming over the hill.

I bet those soldiers were taxidrivers beffore they took the Queens shilling,
beccause that is thier thinking, there is a demand they could never satisfy
they are in thier element, very destructive I sometimes wonder if they see a drunken smash if they think they have responsibility, because thats what happens other people use dubious means to get home.

Luddenden IS NOW A TEST BED FOR TRANSPORTATION EXPERIMENTS, the new yellow school bus transport scheme was tested out here and I could tell you of some hairaising mistakes that were made, before success dawned.this scheme was funded with about £250,000

At the moment there are buses with cycle racks on thier back in another experiment, low floor disabled access this scheme is about a million and a quarter, feeding the main routes, and moving from stations.

I have had a bit of feedback and again hairraising mistakes to sort out but they will be.

A local taxi firm has won a tender of £850,000 to develop a satelite taxi bus service, more of this later, but the scheme starts later this year and we will be monitoring this.

What I can say is restriction in numbers is hampering the taxi experiment and the firm and the government are not best pleased about it but will get over the problem.

because in the end progress cannot be stopped, but those that try are examined and in the end the rules will be changed, because they have to be.

Public transport including taxis are entering a new phase, the dinosaurs will be slayed as they have throughout history, because people will be moved from a to b at thier will to save resourses increase efficiency and cut the car use.

it is a must.


Reply.
Yes most people know the history of Luddites, but the modern use of the expression is aimed at those that cling to outdated methods and think they can hold back progress.
We are in a time of change and developement and if this forum helps to inform and educate then it will serve a useful purpose. Your input about the experiments in your area is what I want to read about not whinning from "Sussex" because he can't get a free plate, his moronic byeline "not long now" says it all. He can't wait for the destruction of the trade so he can shout "told you so". There is far to much negativity, highlighting the short commimgs and wrongdoings of colleagues in an attempt to make themselves look better. I don't want it "swept under the carpet" but there are far to many that celebrate their outrage at the misdeeds of other.



OK T as you are interested I will detail

YELLOW BUS SCHEME
the yellow bus scheme was funded by first bus, West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive, the countryside commission, and calderdale council.

2 buses were imported from america, and the seats had lap belts, there was an argument that these were unlawful however the scheme went ahead regardless.

the aim of the scheme was to ferry junior age children to school safely, cut car movements.

the opperator decided to supply dedicated drivers (the same driver same bus everyday) each child had thier own seat, the drivers to get to know the children by name.

in order that the buses did not stop for unnecesary lengths of time holding up traffic it was decided early on to leave the monies collection to the school, who then funded the bus company.

the opperator observed that to run these schemes successfully there needed to be a change to the laws, so that bus grant would be paid on services for children only, at present it is only paid where the general public get on the bus, and safety of children prevented this happening.

a fact not publicised was that one of the buses did set on fire, though it was quickly controlled.

to assist students as a result of this scheme a student pass was issued which had the added bonus of free travel at evenings and weekends though this scheme acyually meant opperators found some school buses were unviable and this hit the press.

one infant school pulled out of the scheme when teacher assistance was requested to escort children from the bus to the school, though another svchool soon opted in.

The scheme was judged a success he american buses were judged a falure
the governmet awarded west Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive 14m for the purchase and hand over to opperators of new build vehicles
to roll out the scheme throughout the county.

HEBDEN bRIDGER BUS EXPERIMENT.

tHE GOVERNMENT AWARDED West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive 1m to develop services using 2x7 seat taxibuses AND 2X14 SEAT BUSES both with disabled access, in the event 2x14 seater buses were purchased and 2x20odd seaters.

The green party proposed that the buses should be fitted with cycle racks so that cycles could travel down the hills and go back by bus and they were.

proposals from a local taxi firm for busses right to a back street doctors surgery were adopted.

the idia was to put buses down lanes they had never been down b4 pick up passengers and take them to valley bottoms to trains and mainline buses.

the 2x14 seater buses have suffered from the terain and have had massive downtime, so much so another bus was provided to the opperator
in one case an axle broke.

arising from this scheme it has been decided to make available to passengers on the rail connector busses through ticketing to destination transfering to rail as well.


TAXIBUS SCHEME

The experimental taxibus scheme


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:31 am 
TAXIBUS SCHEME

The experimental taxibus scheme has not yet begun, but it is believed to have been won by a local taxi firm who will announce it on here as soon as the contract has been signed.

Serious discussions are commencing, and its believed that the taxi firm are about to sign a legal aggreement with West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive,aggreeing that vehicles provided will not be used on the local taxi ranks.

The scheme is designes to.


cut car usage
cut rural depravation.
provide services to health care.
services to education.
services to shopping
connector services to buses and trains.

the vehicles will stand out from the main taxis by having a burgandy skirt
as opposed to the white of other taxis.

There will be a core of services that will run in peak, and a timetable of services that will run when passengers have telephoned the taxi firm.

The vehicles will recieve fuel bus grant.

none of the services will be designed to hurt taxi or private hire services within the area.

the taxi firm have changed thier software for the scheme from midas to mercury and will use thier satelite systems.

we will post reports


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