Taxi Driver Online

My initial thought on this matter is that the process of obtaining a Taxi vehicle license once insurance has been obtained starts when the vehicle is presented for an MOT at the council testing station. This service obviously has a charge as does obtaining any MOT.

If you want to legally use the vehicle on the road you then have to obtain a vehicle excise road tax license.

So the MOT comes first and the road Tax comes second. The council or licensing authority has no power over Road Tax nor is road tax necessary in order to test a vehicle. There is no additional charge for road tax just because the vehicle is used as a Taxi.

The presumption that a road tax license comes before an MOT or is indeed mandatory in order to have the vehicle tested is incorrect. Therefore the only thing at issue could be the cost of the MOT?

If the council MOT and license administration fee were a nominal £5, would we be debating this issue?

Road Tax has nothing whatsoever to do with councils, it is a Government Tax which allows every vehicle to stand on the highway presuming the vehicle has the other two mandatory certificates, namely insurance and MOT.

The MOT is a requirement for all vehicles over three years old to show they are roadworthy, insurance is also mandatory. All three make up the basic ingredients that allow a vehicle to use the roads, however if the vehicle is used as Taxi a licensing authority only has a hand in determining one of those elements and it is not road tax.

I think the issue here is one of charging for the vehicle license to ply for hire, I'm afraid legislation does allow a council to administer such fees as are reasonably necessary in that respect. It must be remembered that the license is to ply for hire and carry passengers for hire and reward, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Road Tax. A council cannot wave road Tax just because they license a vehicle as a Taxi. The two forms of license are independent of each other. The Government administers one and the council administers the other. Under present legislation neither authority has the power to intervene in the administration of the respective authority.

Road Tax in itself is not a license to ply for hire, it is only a license which allows you to use the road. The two are completely separate.

Regards

JD

Hello JD,
I am posting a copy of the relevant section of the Act which introduced the Road Fund Tax system into the UK



CH. 72. Roads Act, 1920. 10 & 11 Geo. 5

14-(1) As from the first day of January, nineteen hundred and twenty-one, any fees or charges, by whatever name called, payable under any general or special Act to any county council, local or police authority in respect of the licensing of any vehicle (other than a tramcar) shall cease to be payable.
---------------------------

As you will observe it expressly states “by what ever name called”, and “in respect of the licensing of any vehicle”.

This Act lays down the foundation of the Road Fund system, and explains that those fees previously collected by LA’s, would as from that time on be collected by commissioners of the Custom and Excise.

Because of the loss of this revenue by the LA’s, provision was made under section 3 – (4), (b) of this act for LA’s to be subsequently paid for their functions by a charge set against the Road Fund.

I am also adding a link to the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (c.22) within which you will observe at Part III, the prescribed rate of Excise Duty and an explanation of the term “Hackney Carriage”.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1994/Uk ... 2_en_7.htm


Regards,
Jeff

I am going to have to do this in stages Jeff, then perhaps we might be able to sort this out. First let me start by saying this act was repealed in various stages and then completely removed from the statute in 2004.

I know you are aware it was repealed so what I need to know now is, which modern act carried forward or amended the section of legislation, contained in the roads act of 1920 to which you refer? If we can find any act that carried forward the legislation we might get somewhere but as it stands the 1920 Roads act has been repealed.

Here is the sequence of repeal.

The Act was repealed in part by
the Statute Law Revision Act 1927, s 1, Schedule,
Pt I, the Road Traffic Act 1930, s 122, Sch 5,
the Finance Act 1936, s 33, Sch 3,
Pt II, the Vehicles (Excise) Act 1949, s 30, Sch 7,
the Highways Act 1959, s 312(2), Sch 25,
the London Government Act 1963, s 16(2), Sch 6, para 70,
the Vehicle and Driving Licences Act 1969, s 37, Sch 3,
the Statute Law (Repeals) Act 1975, s 1, Schedule,
the Statute Law (Repeals) Act 1989, s 1(1), Sch 1, Pt X,
and the Statute Law (Repeals) Act 1993, s 1(1), Sch 1, Pt XV;
remainder repealed by the Statute Law (Repeals) Act 2004, as from 22 July 2004.


Regards

JD

Hello JD

The mechanics of the system were set in place at the time that the Roads Act 1920 came into force - and the collection of those fees remains an integral part of the Excise Licence to this day, and is collected on behalf of the Treasury through the Sec of State for Transports agency the DVLA, The subsequent repeal of the Act does not alter the fee collection procedure which had been put in place at that time.
Regards,
Jeff

I note that everyone else is keeping well clear of this topic.

How strange.

_________________
IDFIMH

For reasons of clarity for those who might not understand what you mean by licensing, it should be noted that you mean "vehicle excise duty" which is generally termed as "Road Tax" Would that be correct?

Moving on to your second point below.



There lies the nub, you don't have to be in possession of a valid Road Tax licence in order to present the vehicle for test at the council testing station.

When you refer to the vehicle being presented to the LA, just exactly what do you mean? Are you referring to the MOT Testing of the vehicle or some other function?

Can we agree that in order to obtain a license of any kind the only time a vehicle needs to be presented to the LA is when it is to be tested as mechanically sound and fit to do the job in question?

Would you agree on those points and would you also agree that in order to have a vehicle MOT Tested a valid road Tax is not required?

Would you also agree that Road Tax is a separate tax collected by the Government and a Licence to ply for hire is an administration charge collected by the licensing Authority to cover the cost of administration therefore it is not a Tax but a service administration charge?



The granting of a license by the licensing authority in this context has nothing whatsoever to do with Road Tax. The license is granted to a vehicle in order that it can carry passengers for hire and reward. The road tax is incidental.

I think you will agree that Taxing a vehicle does not give it the right to ply for hire. The only people who can allow vehicles to ply for hire as Hackney carriages are those commissioners entrusted with the Task given to them by Parliament since the 19th Century. There has never been an act of Parliament that has ever taken that right away or even amended the right of those commissioners to administer Hackney carriage licenses.

The two licenses in question namely the road tax license and a hackney carriage license are completely different and perform entirely different functions.

One is a Road Tax, the other is a license to carry passengers for hire and reward. There is no comparison in the two and as you will know there has never been a legal case that has suggested there is a comparison. At least I can't find one, perhaps somebody else might?

The link you posted in respect of excise duty is just the annual rates of duty applied to the different types of vehicles, in size, capacity and laden weight. It offers nothing to suggest that administrative license costs of councils are linked to Road Tax.

Have I yet made any points whatsoever that you might agree with?

Regards

JD

JD, Further to your posting:

"One is a Road Tax, the other is a license to carry passengers for hire and reward. There is no comparison in the two and as you will know there has never been a legal case that has suggested there is a comparison. At least I can't find one, perhaps somebody else might?"

A LONDON Hackney Carriage requires a valid and up to date 'tax disc' displayed when it is presented for its annual licensing test at the PCO testing station. Not only does it require therefore a standard vehicle license but also a PCO license! It does not however require an MOT certificate since it is exempted due to the rigourous testing it goes through at the PCO.

And one more thing; in order for an 'ordinary vehicle' to pass its MOT it does'nt even need to be rust free let alone clean or even complete! It can even have oil, coffee or [edited by admin] all over the seats and bits of masking tape covering sharp edges or missing bodywork and it will still pass the MOT test. My cab on the other hand failed its annual test last year for, among other things a STIFF BONNET RELEASE LEVER. You just couldn't make it up.

What are you calling a standard vehicle license? Do you mean Road Tax license? I think by now everyone is aware that Road Tax is a statutory requirement if we want to drive our vehicles on the road and if we want our vehicle to be a hackney carriage we have to obtain the necessary license.

I wasn't aware that you needed to display a current Road tax disc in order to have a vehicle Tested at the PCO but I'm glad you gave us that information. Perhaps they should include that requirement in their 2000 PCO conditions of fitness guidance. I shall phone them up on Tuesday and ask them why they didn't include the Road Tax requirement in their published Guidance. I do not know if that requirement which as I say is not listed in their conditions of fitness requirement would stand up in a court of law?

The fact still remains that in every MOT Testing station throughout the United Kingdom it is not a "legal" requirement to have Road Tax before a vehicle can be tested.

It is certainly not a requirement in Manchester and I would be very interested to find out if it was a requirement anywhere else?

Regards

JD

Its not a COF requirement but a legal requirement. How do you propose to get your potential hackney carriage to the PCO's testing station without a valid VEL? And do you expect the carriage office to take it on the road without it? Or then again are you just taking the [edited by admin]? I suspect the latter.

As long as you have a vehicle booked in for an mot you are allowed to drive that vehicle to the mot station have it tested and drive it back again. You do not need Road tax for that purpose.

I'm surprised you didn't know that?

Regards

JD

Here is the legal requirement.

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/carlgvowner ... scheme.htm

http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/in ... ItemID=537

Regards

JD

Hello JD,
I would remind you that I have continually pointed out that you obtain the VEL prior, to presenting your vehicle to any passing station - that is a statutory requirement, and the PCO are required to ensure that the keeper of the vehicle does hold a current VEL at the time of the inspection.
see London Cab Order 1934, Part III, 10-(1),(i) for confirmation.
Regards,
Jeff

I am pefectly aware thank you. The vehicle in question however needs no MOT certificate in order to obtain what you insist on referring to as "road tax" and to be taken to the carriage office to be tested for the purpose of granting a license to operate as a Hackney Carriage any vehicle would, indeed does require a valid Vehicle Excise License, properly displayed in accordance with the relevant DVLA regulationsand I am astonished that you fail to appreciate the difference.

So are you saying a vehicle over 3 years old can get road Tax without an MOT of any kind?

Regards

JD

Have a read of this and then tell me that you need a vehicle excise license to drive a vehicle to an MOT testing station.

Nottinghampshire Police

Vehicle Tax / Vehicle Excise Licence(Road Tax)

You may drive the vehicle without a current Vehicle Excise Licence to and from a Vehicle Testing Station for the purpose of obtaining an MoT Certificate provided you go by the most direct route, the Test appointment has been booked and there is insurance cover for the vehicle as required by the Road Traffic Acts.

The local office for the Nottinghamshire area is at:

DVLA Local Office
Block 6,
Government Buildings,
Chalfont Drive,
Nottingham,
NG8 3RA
Telephone 0870 241 1876

Regards

JD