Taxi Driver Online

Hi

Just wondering if anyone knows of any case law regarding the requirement many L.A.'s have that prospective vehicle license applicants must present vehicles at the time of application

Surely if your L.A. restricts numbers & you wish to put in a speculitive application (that will almost certainally be refused) you should not have to purchase a £20-30k taxi ?

Cheers

Cannock Chase -v- Aldritt 28 January 1993 supports the case that such a request that drivers must present a vehicle (and in this case insure it first) before an application is determined, is an onerous one and therefore un-lawful.

Alas I only have the judgement on paper, thus can't e-mail it to you.

But it's listed in the Button licensing book.

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IDFIMH

Ain't that contradicted in Plymouth?

oops.....sorry date of post was before keycabs case

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

It's also listed on TDO, I thought you knew that?

http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3624

Regards

JD

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I couldnt find it in a search JD....so I emailed it....to TDO earlier.

But thanks for pointing me in the direction, I knew it would be on here, I remember a reference to it.

The Key Cabs case refers to it

regards

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

It was Sussex who first mentioned the case all those many moons ago.

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

I might have had hair then

regards

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Along with the Roydon judgement Alldritt is my bestest.

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IDFIMH

is it so hard for an LA to say if any HC plates are available?

its quite simple

"we allow 500 HC plates, 450 are issued, therefore we have (er, hang on a minute....) 50 to allocate, we can reserve one for 2 weeks"

or am i expecting too much?

even a small fee would be acceptable?

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Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most

The Keycabs case put the cat amongst the pigeons in respect of English law and section 40 of the 1847 act. The case is quite straightforward, keycabs applied for 30 licenses in 2003 at a time when Plymouth were vulnerable to a legal challenge because of their outdated survey. Technically the application was refused some eighteen months later in response to a second later reiterating the contents of the original application. Keycabs made a further application sometime later which ended up in the crown court. The court found in keycabs favour and ordered Plymouth council to issue one license. The subsidiary issue surrounding the original application for 30 licenses was considered but refused on the grounds that the original application did not amount to an application at all but merely an enquiry.

Keycabs appealed and for a different reason Judge Mitting refused the appeal on the grounds that, if the original request did amount to an application it had to identify the vehicles that were to be licensed.

Having considered alldritt and several other cases the court said,

"The ability to identify a vehicle is a **necessary but not sufficient pre-condition for the making of a requisition** under s 40. A document could be sent which said, “I have a vehicle. I wish to enquire of the council whether or not if I were to make an application it would be favourably considered.” That would clearly not amount to an application, even though the vehicle existed. *What cannot however be made, on my understanding of the law, is an application which does not relate to a specific vehicle,* an application for a licence in blank".

I always advise anyone making an application for a hackney carriage license to be specific in stating that the letter is an application and not merely a request to be placed on a waiting list and to stress that the application is to be placed before the committee for their determination.

In respect of submitting vehicle details I suggest anyone applying for a license uses a little imagination.

I'll leave you with the keycabs application and you determine whether it amounts to a requisition for 30 licenses or merely an enquiry? I will also leave you with the response from the LO who puts his foot in it by actually stating the letter is an application and then contradicts himself in court by stating the letter did not amount to an application.

Keycabs first application letter 18 May 2003:

“Dear Mr Truss,

Application for 30 Hackney Carriage Vehicle Plates

Significant demands are now placed on our services and to fulfil that demand we require to increase the number of Hackney Carriages operating on our radio circuit. This conclusion is predicated on the demands we are currently receiving without any promotional activity on our part. We have a requirement for an additional 30 hackney carriages to meet demand and we require an undertaking from the Council that these plates will be made available to us as required.

To assist the Council in their deliberations, we are prepared to make a presentation to the Licensing Committee to present our requirements in detail.”

No reply was received until a letter dated 10 November 2003 from Mr Truss to Mr Preece, which read:

“Re: APPLICATION FOR 30 HACKNEY CARRIAGE LICENCES

I refer to your letter in which you request 30 additional Hackney Carriage licences.

I must stress that, as there have been in excess of 100 expressions of interest recorded, I can give no indication at present that your **application** will be successful.”

"Keycabs second application letter 9/7/04:"

“Hackney Carriage Plate Applications

It is now over eighteen months since our original application to the Plymouth City Council for the grant of thirty hackney carriage vehicle licences. At that time we offered to make a presentation to the committee to enlarge on the reasons why the licences were required – no such presentation has been requested and despite follow up letters the council appears to be moribund in making any decision on this issue.

LO response 21/7/04

“HACKNEY CARRIAGE PLATE APPLICATIONS

I understand that it is your intention to present a vehicle today for a Hackney Carriage licence to be issued.

I have to inform you that such licence cannot be provided for the reasons outlined within this letter.”

I need not refer to the reasons stated “I had originally replied to your request for thirty licences by letter dated 10 November 2003, a copy of which is attached. ” The letter went on to explain and justify the council's alleged inaction over this long period of time.

Tread carefully when walking on egg shells.

Regards

JD

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