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hotel courtesy bus
http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12404		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  grumpy [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  hotel courtesy bus
I'm not sure if this has been covered previously, a local pub/hotel has a 16 seater bus it uses to transport the domino, darts and pool teams to away venues. We are sure it's also being used as an unlicenced PH vehicle* by the driver , in full knowledge of the owner, (*regulars of the pub only).

A]Does the vehicle need a PH licence/plate to operate as a courtesy bus?

And

B]If it has one will that cover his "extras"?

We can't prove money changes hands, but it's nick-named "the pound a head taxi".

Tried LA for answer in the past, got nowhere. I now want to bring it up at the next forum meeting with the LO, but would like, if possible, to be fore-armed.
Author:  captain cab [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hotel courtesy bus
grumpy wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been covered previously, a local pub/hotel has a 16 seater bus it uses to transport the domino, darts and pool teams to away venues. We are sure it's also being used as an unlicenced PH vehicle* by the driver , in full knowledge of the owner, (*regulars of the pub only).

A]Does the vehicle need a PH licence/plate to operate as a courtesy bus?

And

B]If it has one will that cover his "extras"?

We can't prove money changes hands, but it's nick-named "the pound a head taxi".

Tried LA for answer in the past, got nowhere. I now want to bring it up at the next forum meeting with the LO, but would like, if possible, to be fore-armed.


It has 16 seats.....it cannot be PH

CC
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
a driver of a 9-16 seater which involves ANY money changing hands would also need a D1 licence


http://www.lcts.org.uk/d1licence.htm
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hotel courtesy bus
grumpy wrote:
A]Does the vehicle need a PH licence/plate to operate as a courtesy bus?

And

B]If it has one will that cover his "extras"?

Any driver must have a PSV license, the owner must have a PSV operator's license, and the vehicle must have a PSV disc in the window.

If not then VOSA is the folks to complain to.
Author:  grumpy [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
thanks for replies, will check and complain (if pertinate) to VOSA, not LA, as I first thought.
Author:  grandad [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hotel courtesy bus
Sussex wrote:
grumpy wrote:
A]Does the vehicle need a PH licence/plate to operate as a courtesy bus?

And

B]If it has one will that cover his "extras"?

Any driver must have a PSV license, the owner must have a PSV operator's license, and the vehicle must have a PSV disc in the window.

If not then VOSA is the folks to complain to.


Realy, I rang VOSA and I was told that if I am not getting paid, ie takeing the bus to the darts match for free in the bus owned by the pub, then I don't need a PCV license for 16 seats. My ex wife also drives one for the council without a PCV license.
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hotel courtesy bus
grandad wrote:
Realy, I rang VOSA and I was told that if I am not getting paid, ie takeing the bus to the darts match for free in the bus owned by the pub, then I don't need a PCV license for 16 seats. My ex wife also drives one for the council without a PCV license.

Clearly the VOSA chaps don't do law then. ](*,)

http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=4022

http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=3638
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Driving a minibus

You may be allowed to drive a minibus if it is not used for hire or reward.

Hire or reward generally means any payment in cash or kind made by or on behalf of passengers that gives them right to be carried in a vehicle.
Driving licence held before 1 January 1997

If you had entitlement to drive cars before 1 January 1997 you can drive a minibus provided it has a maximum of 17 seats including the driver's seat and is not being used for hire or reward. Your minibus entitlement will remain valid in the United Kingdom until your licence is next renewed.





http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... DG_4022498
Author:  grandad [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hotel courtesy bus
Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
Realy, I rang VOSA and I was told that if I am not getting paid, ie takeing the bus to the darts match for free in the bus owned by the pub, then I don't need a PCV license for 16 seats. My ex wife also drives one for the council without a PCV license.

Clearly the VOSA chaps don't do law then. ](*,)

http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=4022

http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=3638


In both of the cases that you have shown a payment was made. The first one states that the passengers paid and the second one states that they paid by virtue of having a meal or booking a room.
Author:  bloodnock [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: hotel courtesy bus
grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
grumpy wrote:
A]Does the vehicle need a PH licence/plate to operate as a courtesy bus?

And

B]If it has one will that cover his "extras"?

Any driver must have a PSV license, the owner must have a PSV operator's license, and the vehicle must have a PSV disc in the window.

If not then VOSA is the folks to complain to.


Realy, I rang VOSA and I was told that if I am not getting paid, ie takeing the bus to the darts match for free in the bus owned by the pub, then I don't need a PCV license for 16 seats. My ex wife also drives one for the council without a PCV license.



Its a strange world Indeed..!!!
Author:  Sussex [ Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hotel courtesy bus
grandad wrote:
In both of the cases that you have shown a payment was made. The first one states that the passengers paid and the second one states that they paid by virtue of having a meal or booking a room.

If the service being offered to take the lads to the darts match is also offered to anyone else wanting to go to anywhere, then it's legal, or a goodwill enterprise.

If they only do that run, then the pub is gaining an advantage, which then become 'hire and reward'.
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hotel courtesy bus
bloodnock wrote:
grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
grumpy wrote:
A]Does the vehicle need a PH licence/plate to operate as a courtesy bus?

And

B]If it has one will that cover his "extras"?

Any driver must have a PSV license, the owner must have a PSV operator's license, and the vehicle must have a PSV disc in the window.

If not then VOSA is the folks to complain to.


Realy, I rang VOSA and I was told that if I am not getting paid, ie takeing the bus to the darts match for free in the bus owned by the pub, then I don't need a PCV license for 16 seats. My ex wife also drives one for the council without a PCV license.



Its a strange world Indeed..!!!


There are THREE sources in this matter

VOSA
DSA
DVLA

neither seem to have all the facts (or worry too much about it)

it seems ludicrous to me that to take a D1 test in a vehicle i can already legally drive i need L plates and cant self-drive hire one for the test, when i wont be carrying passengers for H&R whilst ON the test... when i was driving 50,000 miles a year in my own large merc sprinter van (the basis for 17 seater minibuses) for 3 years and previously drove 7.5tonners with 20ft box bodies...
Author:  grandad [ Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hotel courtesy bus
Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
In both of the cases that you have shown a payment was made. The first one states that the passengers paid and the second one states that they paid by virtue of having a meal or booking a room.

If the service being offered to take the lads to the darts match is also offered to anyone else wanting to go to anywhere, then it's legal, or a goodwill enterprise.

If they only do that run, then the pub is gaining an advantage, which then become 'hire and reward'.


What advantage is the pub gaining?
Author:  captain cab [ Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: hotel courtesy bus
grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
In both of the cases that you have shown a payment was made. The first one states that the passengers paid and the second one states that they paid by virtue of having a meal or booking a room.

If the service being offered to take the lads to the darts match is also offered to anyone else wanting to go to anywhere, then it's legal, or a goodwill enterprise.

If they only do that run, then the pub is gaining an advantage, which then become 'hire and reward'.


What advantage is the pub gaining?


Punters?

CC
Author:  wannabeeahack [ Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:39 am ]
Post subject: 
I cant QUITE see a pub landlord spending £5k-£12K on a bus and insuring it/fuelling it, etc just to keep a footy/darts team onside....
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