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Operator Issues...
http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2771		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  steptoe [ Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Operator Issues...
I obtained my badge last week and became a private hire driver for the first time, I must say though It isn't all roses as some have told me, too many hours for not enough gain but that is another story.

I went to a call today and was asked if I could carry 5 passengers, driving a normal saloon car (licenced for 4) my immediate answer was no! Getting back on the radio to the operator (the actual boss was working at the time) I told him the dilema and he asked If there was a small child as one of the passengers and that he could sit on the lap of one of the other passengers, my answer to him that it was a "no go" under any circumstances, after all it's my licence that's on the line and not his, I wouldn't even consider this as a normal driver let alone as a taxi driver.

After getting back to the office I had it out with him and told him that I wasn't very happy about his attitude towards breaking the rules let alone the law but he couldn't see any wrong.

He also mentioned that he'd known of drivers pulled over by the police on the night time to pick up drunks (busy night club areas) and take them home just to get them off the streets and that this happens quite often. Again I told him that if I was pulled over by a copper to do this sort of thing I'd have told him to "[edited by admin] off", after all we as private hire drivers are only covered for office bookings and not for ordinary roadside pickups such as hackney drivers. I explained to the operator that this could be an easy set-up provided by the local council to try and weed out those that would break the rules and "hey presto" you've just lost your private hire licence!

I'm sure that I did the right thing in saying what I did but does anyone else out there have any comments to make on this subject, am I just being paranoid?
Author:  Sussex [ Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Operator Issues...
steptoe wrote:
After getting back to the office I had it out with him and told him that I wasn't very happy about his attitude towards breaking the rules let alone the law but he couldn't see any wrong.?

The problem is that you are most probably the first person to say no, thus the customer was surprised and the boss got the hump.

There are a few councils that allow the maximum number allowed to be increased. One of them being Sefton. There they can take more than the max number if some of them are little.

Another council that makes it up as they go along. [-(
Author:  Sussex [ Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Operator Issues...
steptoe wrote:
He also mentioned that he'd known of drivers pulled over by the police on the night time to pick up drunks (busy night club areas) and take them home just to get them off the streets and that this happens quite often.

Just tell the police you are on your way to a job that you are insured for, that might help.
Author:  steptoe [ Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Operator Issues...
Sussex wrote:
steptoe wrote:
There are a few councils that allow the maximum number allowed to be increased. One of them being Sefton. There they can take more than the max number if some of them are little.

Another council that makes it up as they go along. [-(


I see what you're getting at but either way, even if your local council say that it's ok, in the eyes of the law it isn't.

If a car is only able to carry 4 passengers plus the driver and you end up with six passengers then you are not insured.

There are obviously 2 sets of rules that we have to follow, those laid down by the ministery of transport and enforced by the law and those laid out by your local council who has licenced you, bend either of those rules and you are liable to suffer as the driver if caught, but it really isn't worth the risk.

Time to change to a law abiding operator I thinks...
Author:  Sussex [ Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Operator Issues...
steptoe wrote:
If a car is only able to carry 4 passengers plus the driver and you end up with six passengers then you are not insured.

Exactly, but some councils think they know insurance law better than the insurance companies.

We all know that the insurance trade will dig deep to find a way to refuse a claim. IMHO they wouldn't have to dig too far if you have 6 pairs of customer legs in you car when your license states only four. :shock:
Author:  Guest [ Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
we used to allow about 10 years ago under 12s to be classed as half.
but the council put a stop to it.
Author:  TDO [ Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, I think some LAs still allow an extra passenger if they are under a certain age, but this varies. And I think some don't count 'babes in arms' at all.

Seems to be a slight conflict here with the seatbelt rules as well.

But another good example of the rules mishmash.
Author:  steptoe [ Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
TDO wrote:
Yes, I think some LAs still allow an extra passenger if they are under a certain age, but this varies. And I think some don't count 'babes in arms' at all.

Seems to be a slight conflict here with the seatbelt rules as well.


But how can this be...?

The law states that any passenger 14 and under is the direct responsibility of the driver IE: belt up!

Here's a snippit of section 75 of the Highway code.

75: You MUST wear a seat belt if one is available, unless you are exempt. Those exempt from the requirement include the holders of medical exemption certificates and people making local deliveries in a vehicle designed for the purpose.
Laws RTA 1988 sects 14 & 15, MV(WSB)R & MV(WSBCFS)R


A child still counts as a passenger under the eyes of the law whatever the age is. If a car is designed to carry 4 passengers then that is exactly what it means and if you are licenced by the local council to carry 4 passengers then that also means the same, 4 should mean 4 not 4 plus one child on lap etc. In just the same way that a car is designed to carry 4 passengers the local council couldn't then say "Licenced to carry 5 passengers".

Regardless of what the LA might say 4 means 4, it's also a good get-out clause as mentioned here before for the insurance company, 4 pairs of passenger legs not 5. Can you imagine a claim put against a driver because of an accident where the insurance company won't pay out, I'm sure there isn't one taxi driver here, Hackney or PH that could afford to pay such large sums of money.
Author:  Barnsley [ Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
All very confusing this as I have asked about this before to our Operator and was told kids in arms don't count. It will more than likely take an accident to happen before this issue is sorted out.
Author:  steptoe [ Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Barnsley wrote:
All very confusing this as I have asked about this before to our Operator and was told kids in arms don't count. It will more than likely take an accident to happen before this issue is sorted out.


Very true, but all this will be at the expense of the driver rather than the operator.

This is why I shall shortly be moving to an operator who doesn't expect me to break/bend the rules, that's if there is one out there. It's taken me too long and has cost enough money to get my badge just to lose it over some careless words of an operator.
Author:  Barnsley [ Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Have you thought of contacting the council and asking there view on this issue. They might have a little word with your boss.
Author:  steptoe [ Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Barnsley wrote:
Have you thought of contacting the council and asking there view on this issue. They might have a little word with your boss.


I suppose I could do but would either side take any notice?

I'm now working with another operator as of tomorrow, it's a dire wage, £50 per day for £10 hours work but it is a guaranteed wage. No car, work, rent fuel to worry about and it's all mainly contract work.

I'll hang on with this for while until I get my own car plated and whilst I apply for another badge with another local council.
Author:  Guest [ Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
if I put more customers in my cab than it says on the plate.
then that plate will no longer be on my cab.
Author:  steptoe [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cgull wrote:
if I put more customers in my cab than it says on the plate.
then that plate will no longer be on my cab.


This still makes me wonder...

Working in Birmingham I was sent to Birmingham Coach station the other week along with two other drivers, vehicles involved where two 8 seater minibuses and a car licenced to carry 4 passenger. The job was to carry 20 passengers up to the services just past Jn 10a of the M6.

When I said 20 passengers what I meant was, 20 adult passengers plus 1 child that was about 18 months old.

A National Express representative as well as the PH company thought that it was quite alright for the child to sit on the lap of an adult, the parent as well as myself was in total disagreement about it all. The driver in the other minibus eventually agreed to carry 9 passnegers eventhough it clearly said 8 on the plate.
Author:  Sussex [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
As we all know insurance companies will go out of their way to avoid paying a claim. Having 9 customers, even if they are all babies, would be an absolute godsend for them. :-$
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