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| Road tests (can a mechanic drive your taxi/PH?) http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39509 |
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| Author: | grandad [ Thu May 18, 2023 6:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Road tests (can a mechanic drive your taxi/PH?) |
Our Licensing team have told a driver today that no mechanic is permitted to road test a licensed vehicle without a valid hackney/PH license, Further more they said that when we take our vehicles in for their inspections that the tester is not permitted to drive the vehicle from outside the test station to inside the test station. Please can anyone point me to any legislation that will either confirm or refute this position? |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Thu May 18, 2023 7:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: road tests |
Quote: Our Licensing team have told a driver today that no mechanic is permitted to road test a licensed vehicle without a valid hackney/PH license, Well your licensing team are buffoons. Before the judgment below just about anyone could drive a PH. Benson - v - Boyce https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/1997/35.html The above stopped that flat, which could have led to what your council is saying. However thanks to my memory, and the good folks from Hansard, the then Minister of Transport clarified matters for us all. https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hans ... e-vehicles |
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| Author: | grandad [ Thu May 18, 2023 7:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: road tests |
Hi Sussex, That particular case specifically mentions Private hire Vehicles. It it the same for Hackney Vehicles? |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Thu May 18, 2023 7:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: road tests |
grandad wrote: Hi Sussex, That particular case specifically mentions Private hire Vehicles. It it the same for Hackney Vehicles? Previous case law and the acts already allowed hackneys to be non-licensed tested. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/67/schedule/7 In particular; Section 46 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 (drivers not to act without first obtaining a licence) shall not apply to a person driving a hackney carriage licensed under that Act for the purpose of or in connection with— (a)any test of the mechanical condition or fitness of the hackney carriage or its equipment carried out for the purposes of [F1section 45 of the Road Traffic Act 1988] (tests of satisfactory condition of vehicles other than goods vehicles) or for the purposes of any requirements with respect to such condition or fitness imposed by or under any other enactment; or (b)any test of that person’s competence to drive a hackney carriage carried out for the purposes of any application made by him for a licence to drive a hackney carriage. |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Thu May 18, 2023 8:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Road tests (can a mechanic drive your taxi/PH?) |
The question I would also ask your licensing officials is what made them change their previous views. I guessing that up until recently they allowed mechanics to undertake testing of taxis/PHVs, so why the change of heart? |
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| Author: | wannabeeahack [ Mon May 22, 2023 10:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Road tests (can a mechanic drive your taxi/PH?) |
how can a mechanic truly test the operation of a car without driving it...... not that you can find a real mechanic these days its called a "test drive" for a reason |
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| Author: | roythebus [ Mon May 22, 2023 11:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Road tests (can a mechanic drive your taxi/PH?) |
Interesting cases there. On the bus side, a mechanic without a PSV licence per se must have the category of licence to drive a a vehicle of that size, D1 I think it is, but does not need the Driver CPC card with the statutory 35 hours training every 5 years. Other related matters as to the purpose of the journey, is some cases an empty bus going from the depot to the bus station to pick up its passengers was originally deemed to be not a bus under some regulations such as "buses only" roads. I got done many years ago, 1973 IIRC in Northampton for driving down The Drapery in a coach It went to mags maybe 5 times before they decided that as the purpose of the journey was carrying passengers for hire and reward but not for separate fares, it was a private hire vehicle, not a hackney carriage. Luckily bus laws have change since then so that anything with more than 8 passenger seats is now a "bus". It's now legal to drive an empty bus from London to Manchester for rail replacement duties or local bus work without a tachograph. Had the same journey been undertaken if it was to undertake a private hire, the driver would need to use a tacho. |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Tue May 23, 2023 7:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Road tests (can a mechanic drive your taxi/PH?) |
wannabeeahack wrote: how can a mechanic truly test the operation of a car without driving it...... not that you can find a real mechanic these days its called a "test drive" for a reason They can't, simple as that. Which is why Grandad's manor is the only council daft enough to not realise that. 
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| Author: | MR T [ Thu May 25, 2023 11:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Road tests (can a mechanic drive your taxi/PH?) |
A few years back, there was a driver who was also a counsellor being prosecuted by his counsel for driving a private hire car without a license, his argument to them was that he was road testing the vehicle as he was the mechanic, it was when Jd was alive. I supplied him with a letter from the Ministry of transport that was sent out to councils regarding testing of vehicles., It is on here, they said that the priority is that the vehicles must be safe and the testing them was the first thing they should take into consideration |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Fri May 26, 2023 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Road tests (can a mechanic drive your taxi/PH?) |
Sussex wrote: The question I would also ask your licensing officials is what made them change their previous views. I guessing that up until recently they allowed mechanics to undertake testing of taxis/PHVs, so why the change of heart? Did you get an answer or is it still ongoing? |
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| Author: | grandad [ Sat May 27, 2023 11:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Road tests (can a mechanic drive your taxi/PH?) |
Sussex wrote: Sussex wrote: The question I would also ask your licensing officials is what made them change their previous views. I guessing that up until recently they allowed mechanics to undertake testing of taxis/PHVs, so why the change of heart? Did you get an answer or is it still ongoing? Yes, I got the reply a couple of days ago. Hi Hope you’re well. Regarding mechanics driving a taxi, Section 46 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 states: Drivers not to act without first obtaining a licence. No person shall act as driver of any hackney carriage licensed in pursuance of this or the special Act to ply for hire within the prescribed distance without first obtaining a licence from the commissioners, which licence shall be registered by the clerk to the commissioners, [F5and such fee as the commissioners may determine shall be paid,]for the same; and every such licence shall be in force until the same is revoked, except during the time that the same may be suspended as after mentioned. After doing a lot of scouring around we have managed to find the Transport Act 1985 Schedule 7, Minor and Consequential amendments, part 3 which states: Section 46 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 (drivers not to act without first obtaining a licence) shall not apply to a person driving a hackney carriage licensed under that Act for the purpose of or in connection with— (a) any test of the mechanical condition or fitness of the hackney carriage or its equipment carried out for the purposes of [F1section 45 of the Road Traffic Act 1988] (tests of satisfactory condition of vehicles other than goods vehicles) or for the purposes of any requirements with respect to such condition or fitness imposed by or under any other enactment; or (b)any test of that person’s competence to drive a hackney carriage carried out for the purposes of any application made by him for a licence to drive a hackney carriage. This makes it a lot more logical and does allow a mechanic to drive the vehicle to test the vehicles condition. Kind regards |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Sat May 27, 2023 6:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Road tests (can a mechanic drive your taxi/PH?) |
But why the confusion in the first place? We can't have officials making stuff up as they go along. |
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| Author: | StuartW [ Sun May 28, 2023 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Road tests (can a mechanic drive your taxi/PH?) |
Don't know if this is of any use, but this might be the letter from 2000 referred to by Mr T     
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| Author: | edders23 [ Wed May 31, 2023 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Road tests (can a mechanic drive your taxi/PH?) |
too many different acts that govern our trade no wonder there is still confusion about what is the correct law they really should not have buried the draft act that the law society went to so much trouble to produce |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Road tests (can a mechanic drive your taxi/PH?) |
edders23 wrote: too many different acts that govern our trade no wonder there is still confusion about what is the correct law they really should not have buried the draft act that the law society went to so much trouble to produce I get any confusion soon after the 1847 and 1976 acts came into being, but Grandad's issue was created by officials being concerned 20 years after the government published clarification. |
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