Taxi Driver Online :: View topic - Sefton committee meeting Nov 27, fit n proper?

Some of the penalties imposed on drivers on their obtaining points appear to be somewhat over the top.Does it create much of a problem?

Any info you have Capt would prove most interesting.Hate to see these local HITLERS putting it down.A couple of years ago was succesful in Crawley where council were stronging it on a driver,re double jeapordy.
YF Terry

The submission to the council was relatively simple, private hire and hackney drivers agreed to the advanced CRB checks a number of years ago, the reason being to give confidence to the public concerning the drivers, we have no problem with upgrading standards, but we do have a problem when courses end up being tests,

The hackney trade, placed a lot of pressure on the licensing officers to place before the council the fact, English Taxi and private hire drivers were undergoing a full CRB check, and that people from outside of England were being allowed to be licensed even though they did not provide the same level of check, in fact some could produce nothing, the councils were not aware that there was a difference, NOW THEY ARE, and they feel that the CRB standard should be the same for everyone, and if they cannot meet it. then they should not be licensed. you have to remember why the CRB was introduced..

MR T wrote:

So the decision has been deferred one month?

CC

Yes and No,, nobody will be issued a licence unless they complete the CRB check too British standard, at the same time Councillors have instructed legal to clarify their position, and the decision will be made after the full facts have been presented, I strongly think this is only the beginning,

Author:	JD [ Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Sefton committee meeting Nov 27, fit n proper?
On 27 November Sefton licensing committee sit down to rubber stamp their recent survey but also on the agenda amongst other things is this little item about fit and proper persons. All the other reports can be had here. http://cmis.sefton.gov.uk/CMISWebPublic ... ingID=2472 ITEM NO. 9 ANNEX A SEFTON COUNCIL POLICY- DETERMINING “FIT AND PROPER” IN RELATION TO LICENCE APPLICANTS Basic rules for applicants. ALL APPLICANTS for the issue of ALL Driver's licences must declare any convictions/ formal cautions/ fixed penalties as taxi and private hire drivers are excluded from the provisions of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. In addition they must disclose any “pending or outstanding” matters. It is a criminal offence to fail to disclose any relevant matters. All information provided is confidential and will only be taken into account in relation to an application. If you would like to discuss the relevance of your particular matters please contact the Nominated Officers on 0151-934-5423 OR 5425 for advice. The reason for a General Policy The over-riding consideration of the Licensing Authority is the" Protection of the Travelling Public". A person with one current conviction for serious crimes may not be permanently barred from obtaining a licence, but is generally expected to be free from convictions for a period of 3 to 5 years, before a licence is issued. Someone who has been convicted of one or more offences and as a result has had to wait a year or two to obtain a licence is considered more likely to value any licence subsequently granted. The Council's Guidelines [see tables overleaf] set out the "general periods of disqualification" attached to particular convictions. The tables list the period of time, for which, an applicant will "generally be barred or disqualified" from obtaining or holding a licence from this Council. The period will be calculated from the date of conviction for the offence OR the date of completion of any custodial sentence, whichever is the greater period of "general disqualification." If the Council Policy current at the date of application does not specifically exclude an applicant the Council may still resolve, upon an examination of the application, including cautions, convictions and other relevant matters that an applicant is still to be regarded as unfit. In exceptional circumstances only the Council may exercise its’ discretion to issue a licence if the applicant provides sufficient mitigation. The burden of proving such mitigating circumstances lies with the applicant. It is the applicant’s responsibility to provide sufficient evidence to support mitigation. If they do not then the Act of 1976 does not permit the Council to grant a licence. Determining if an applicant is “Fit & Proper” The Council will consider all cautions and convictions as well as “pending” matters due before the courts. Before the Council makes its’ decision it will allow an opportunity for an applicant to make representations upon such matters and the circumstances surrounding them. Any applicant who is refused the issue of a licence on the grounds that they are "not a fit & proper person" to hold a licence may appeal that refusal, by means of a written complaint to the Magistrates’ Courts. Any refusal notice will be in writing and will give both the reasons for refusal and the method for appealing. Sefton Metropolitan Borough Council requires both an ENHANCED Criminal Record Disclosure Certificate from the CRB AND a printout of the applicant’s driver record from DVLA Swansea. Both of these must be obtained at the applicant’s expense, at separate cost to the licence fee. “However to meet European Free Movement Rules: “Any driver licence applicant that cannot obtain a satisfactory CRB Enhanced level disclosure must produce a Certificate of Good Conduct from their last country of residence or home country, as their own expense. Any such applicant will only be granted a maximum of an annual licence until a satisfactory CRB Enhanced level disclosure is obtained”. “Any driver licence applicant will only be granted a drivers’ licence if they satisfy the Council that they are entitled to work within the UK. Any applicant must currently hold and have held a valid EU or Northern Ireland driving licence for twelve months”. MOTORING MATTERS…………………… PERIOD FOR WHICH "DISQUALIFIED" Single Convictions incurring less than 7 points…………NOT DISQUALIFIED "Points offences" totalling 12+ leading to ban…….. 12 Months from return of DVLA Licence Convictions with 7 or more points per offence…….. Whilst points are "LIVE" 1 Conviction relating to drink / intoxication in connection with vehicles……..2 years from return of DVLA Licence 2 or more convictions relating to drink/ drugs intoxication in connection with vehicles. (Medical examination may be required)……………3 years from return of DVLA Licence If alcoholism is shown then the period is: (Medical examination will be required)…….5 years after detoxification treatment. CRIMINAL MATTERS…………….PERIOD FOR WHICH "DISQUALIFIED" Involving prohibited drugs ……..5 years free of conviction/ caution Involving indecency…………. 5 years free of conviction/ caution Involving violence……………. 5 years free of conviction/ caution Involving dishonesty…………….3 years free of conviction/ caution REGULATORY/LICENSING MATTERS In addition any offences committed in the course of Public / Private Hire employment are regarded as extremely serious matters. Any breach of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847, the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, the County of Merseyside Act 1980 and any other relevant local/national legislation can result in the following: PROPRIETORS More than 1 such offence………. 1 Month suspension of Licence Persistent record of offences……. Revocation of Licence DRIVERS More than 1 such offence…………. 1 Month suspension of Licence Persistent record of offences………. Revocation of Licence OPERATORS More than 1 such offence…… 1 Month suspension of Licence Persistent record of offences…… Revocation of Licence

Author:	captain cab [ Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:
http://cmis.carlisle.gov.uk/CMISWebPubl ... eeting=855 Carlisle to discuss CRB checks on 22nd November 06 CC

Author:	MR T [ Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:
http://cmis.sefton.gov.uk/CMISWebPublic ... ment=27309

Author:	MR T [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:27 am ]
Post subject:
Well any suggestions, all are welcome.

Author:	MR T [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:
The meeting took place, and the Councillors were extremely concerned when it was explained to them that the CRB check regarding people from outside of Britain was not to the same standard , the out come is that everything is put on hold, they are seeking legal advice to clarify the council's position, but I will repeat... they are not happy.....

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Author:	GMB Branch secretary [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:
We in London share concerns on CRB checks for immigrants,no doubt MrT you will keep site informed of your councils conclusions and your submissions? Some of the penalties imposed on drivers on their obtaining points appear to be somewhat over the top.Does it create much of a problem?

Author:	captain cab [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:
GMB Branch secretary wrote: Some of the penalties imposed on drivers on their obtaining points appear to be somewhat over the top.Does it create much of a problem? You mean in Sefton or nationwide? regards CC

Author:	captain cab [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:
GMB Branch secretary wrote: Any info you have Capt would prove most interesting.Hate to see these local HITLERS putting it down.A couple of years ago was succesful in Crawley where council were stronging it on a driver,re double jeapordy. YF Terry There are a number of examples of dubious decisions, however (and thankfully) the appeals procedure can end up in magistrates courts where decisions can be overturned. The one current bug bear of mine is council imposed (often on trade advice) penalty point systems. I am convinced these fetter the discretion of LA's, unfortunately I seem to be [edited by admin] into the wind when I tell people! regards CC

Author:	GBC [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:
GMB Branch secretary wrote: YF Terry

Author:	captain cab [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:
From Carlisle RP.38/06 HACKNEY CARRIAGE AND PRIVATE HIRE DRIVER’S CRIMINAL RECORD BUREAU CHECKS The Licensing Officer submitted report LDS.86/06 regarding Criminal Record Bureau Checks. The Licensing Officer reported that Hackney Carriage and Private Hire drivers must satisfy the licensing authority that they are fit and proper persons. The application criteria requires a one off enhanced Criminal Records Bureau check. In addition to a CRB check, the Council also requires applicants to provide other evidence to show they are fit and proper, this includes a medical examination, written local knowledge test and a Driving Standards Agency assessment. As part of the application procedure for Hackney/Private Hires driver’s licences, the Council requires applicants to provide evidence of their previous convictions upon application only. Upon annual review, the applicant must submit a Statutory Declaration, witnessed by a solicitor or Commissioner for Oaths. The declaration is in effect a self-declaration of any convictions. In addition the applicant must also produce their DVLA driving licence which would show any motoring convictions. The Licensing Officer stated that many Councils now require subsequent CRB checks on a regular basis to verify an applicants criminal record. The regularity of the checks varies, however the other five Cumbrian district authorities operate a three year CRB check, as do the County Council with regard to their school contracts. He stated that the Department for Transport published a document in October 2006 which referred to Criminal Record Checks. This document suggested that good practice would be for a CRB check at the initial application then every three years, even if the licence is renewed annually. The Licensing Officer proposed that all Hackney Carriage/Private Hire drivers be required to provide a CRB check upon initial application and every subsequent three years. Carlisle Taxi Association supported the proposal and raised no concerns. The National Taxi Association raised a concern over Hackney Carriage Driving Licences renewal date. They stated that the renewal date is 31 August which is the busiest time of year for the CRB when they carry out checks on those involved in education. In response to Members’ questions the Licensing Officer stated that when drivers from the EU apply for a licence the Licensing Office apply to their home country for their equivalent of the CRB check, as well as carrying out a British CRB check in case they had been a resident of Great Britain previously. He reported that the County Council have also accepted this practice. He also reported that applicants complete three quarters of the CRB application and the City Council completes the final part, so that the response is sent directly to the Council. He stated that some of the information from the CRB check is sensitive so it is only held in the office until the application is dealt with then it is destroyed. Finally he confirmed that it was the intention to phase the CRB checks throughout the year, perhaps by surname, to avoid all applications being made in August. RESOLVED – That Hackney Carriage and Private Hire drivers be required to undertake a Criminal Bureau check every three years.

Author:	MR T [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:
The submission to the council was relatively simple, private hire and hackney drivers agreed to the advanced CRB checks a number of years ago, the reason being to give confidence to the public concerning the drivers, we have no problem with upgrading standards, but we do have a problem when courses end up being tests, The hackney trade, placed a lot of pressure on the licensing officers to place before the council the fact, English Taxi and private hire drivers were undergoing a full CRB check, and that people from outside of England were being allowed to be licensed even though they did not provide the same level of check, in fact some could produce nothing, the councils were not aware that there was a difference, NOW THEY ARE, and they feel that the CRB standard should be the same for everyone, and if they cannot meet it. then they should not be licensed. you have to remember why the CRB was introduced..

Author:	captain cab [ Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:22 am ]
Post subject:
MR T wrote: The submission to the council was relatively simple, private hire and hackney drivers agreed to the advanced CRB checks a number of years ago, the reason being to give confidence to the public concerning the drivers, we have no problem with upgrading standards, but we do have a problem when courses end up being tests, The hackney trade, placed a lot of pressure on the licensing officers to place before the council the fact, English Taxi and private hire drivers were undergoing a full CRB check, and that people from outside of England were being allowed to be licensed even though they did not provide the same level of check, in fact some could produce nothing, the councils were not aware that there was a difference, NOW THEY ARE, and they feel that the CRB standard should be the same for everyone, and if they cannot meet it. then they should not be licensed. you have to remember why the CRB was introduced.. So the decision has been deferred one month? CC

Author:	MR T [ Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:34 am ]
Post subject:
captain cab wrote: MR T wrote: The submission to the council was relatively simple, private hire and hackney drivers agreed to the advanced CRB checks a number of years ago, the reason being to give confidence to the public concerning the drivers, we have no problem with upgrading standards, but we do have a problem when courses end up being tests, The hackney trade, placed a lot of pressure on the licensing officers to place before the council the fact, English Taxi and private hire drivers were undergoing a full CRB check, and that people from outside of England were being allowed to be licensed even though they did not provide the same level of check, in fact some could produce nothing, the councils were not aware that there was a difference, NOW THEY ARE, and they feel that the CRB standard should be the same for everyone, and if they cannot meet it. then they should not be licensed. you have to remember why the CRB was introduced.. So the decision has been deferred one month? CC Yes and No,, nobody will be issued a licence unless they complete the CRB check too British standard, at the same time Councillors have instructed legal to clarify their position, and the decision will be made after the full facts have been presented, I strongly think this is only the beginning,

Author:	captain cab [ Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:36 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Yes and No,, nobody will be issued a licence unless they complete the CRB check too British standard, at the same time Councillors have instructed legal to clarify their position, and the decision will be made after the full facts have been presented, I strongly think this is only the beginning, Lets hope you don't have politically correct morons down there CC

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