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| Is an Airport in Scotland a public place? http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7741 |
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| Author: | gusmac [ Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Is an Airport in Scotland a public place? |
Is an Airport in Scotland a public place? Do the requirements of the CGSA 1982 apply? |
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| Author: | JD [ Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is an Airport in Scotland a public place? |
gusmac wrote: Is an Airport in Scotland a public place?
Do the requirements of the CGSA 1982 apply? You can't get anything more public than an Airport but for the purposes of the 1982 act the Airport has its own bylaws which make it Lord and Master of who can be allowed on the Airport and that includes Taxis. The Airport gives you permission to ply for hire at the airport regardless of whether you are flagged down on one of their public roads. Regards JD |
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| Author: | gusmac [ Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is an Airport in Scotland a public place? |
JD wrote: gusmac wrote: Is an Airport in Scotland a public place? Do the requirements of the CGSA 1982 apply? You can't get anything more public than an Airport but for the purposes of the 1982 act the Airport has its own bylaws which make it Lord and Master of who can be allowed on the Airport and that includes Taxis. The Airport gives you permission to ply for hire at the airport regardless of whether you are flagged down on one of their public roads. Regards JD Apart from requiring airport permission to ply for hire, can they allow any individual or company to flout the requirements of the CGSA 1982? i.e. can they allow PH to pick up unbooked hires or "rank up"? |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is an Airport in Scotland a public place? |
gusmac wrote: Apart from requiring airport permission to ply for hire, can they allow any individual or company to flout the requirements of the CGSA 1982? i.e. can they allow PH to pick up unbooked hires or "rank up"?
No-one can allow a PH to pick up un-booked work, no matter where they pick up. |
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| Author: | grandad [ Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is an Airport in Scotland a public place? |
Sussex wrote: gusmac wrote: Apart from requiring airport permission to ply for hire, can they allow any individual or company to flout the requirements of the CGSA 1982? i.e. can they allow PH to pick up unbooked hires or "rank up"? No-one can allow a PH to pick up un-booked work, no matter where they pick up. Apart from Manchester in the run up to christmas. 
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| Author: | JD [ Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is an Airport in Scotland a public place? |
gusmac wrote: JD wrote: gusmac wrote: Is an Airport in Scotland a public place? Do the requirements of the CGSA 1982 apply? You can't get anything more public than an Airport but for the purposes of the 1982 act the Airport has its own bylaws which make it Lord and Master of who can be allowed on the Airport and that includes Taxis. The Airport gives you permission to ply for hire at the airport regardless of whether you are flagged down on one of their public roads. Regards JD Apart from requiring airport permission to ply for hire, can they allow any individual or company to flout the requirements of the CGSA 1982? i.e. can they allow PH to pick up unbooked hires or "rank up"? No they can't but there is one particular case involving Gatwick or Heathrow where the vehicles were parked away from the main terminal in a compound of sorts under circumstances which the court deemed was not illegal. It all comes down to where the vehicles are exhibited and what they are doing at the time, in other words if they look as though they are making themselves available to the public for hire. An Airport cannot lawfully make bylaws that are incompatible with statute law. In other words in this particular case the Airport cannot make something legal that is allready deemed illegal by law. Regards JD |
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| Author: | Sussex [ Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
At Gatwick car (PH) do rank up, but are only given work via the booking office. And the booking office make dam well sure cos they want their % from the job. 
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| Author: | Ross [ Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: No they can't but there is one particular case involving Gatwick or Heathrow where the vehicles were parked away from the main terminal in a compound of sorts under circumstances which the court deemed was not illegal. It all comes down to where the vehicles are exhibited and what they are doing at the time, in other words if they look as though they are making themselves available to the public for hire.
An Airport cannot lawfully make bylaws that are incompatible with statute law. In other words in this particular case the Airport cannot make something legal that is allready deemed illegal by law. Regards JD In Edinburgh they park at the terminal in rank formation ! with marshals directing the public to them. Is that illegal JD ? |
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| Author: | JD [ Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ross wrote: Quote: No they can't but there is one particular case involving Gatwick or Heathrow where the vehicles were parked away from the main terminal in a compound of sorts under circumstances which the court deemed was not illegal. It all comes down to where the vehicles are exhibited and what they are doing at the time, in other words if they look as though they are making themselves available to the public for hire. An Airport cannot lawfully make bylaws that are incompatible with statute law. In other words in this particular case the Airport cannot make something legal that is allready deemed illegal by law. Regards JD In Edinburgh they park at the terminal in rank formation ! with marshals directing the public to them. Is that illegal JD ? The law relating to plying for hire is well established in the UK, you don't need me to tell you that. Any unlicensed vehicles forming a taxi rank at the airport in the hope of drawing custom from the Airport public is breaking the law. It might be the case that the vehicles are only carrying passengers that have pre booked a vehicle. No matter what the circumstance you are going to have to do one of two things, either convince the Airport that the private hire vehicles and their drivers should not be on public view, or alternately you are going to have to take half a dozen of them to court, for the offence of "plying for hire". You can also take the private hire company to court along with the Airport Authority for facilitating a public Taxi rank for unlicensed vehicles at the Airport. That would place you in the same position as Watford where it soon became apparent how the law should be applied. In that scenario the vehicles remained on display but the drivers were absent until the passenger obtained a ticket of contract. My own belief is that just like local councils Edinburgh Airport will think they are above the law and do nothing. Except perhaps come down hard on the black cab fraternity, if that is at all possible? Regards JD |
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| Author: | Ross [ Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks for that JD ! |
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| Author: | Ross [ Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
What about the marshals when approached, directing people (who have not pre booked) towards the PH ? |
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| Author: | JD [ Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ross wrote: What about the marshals when approached, directing people (who have not pre booked) towards the PH ?
If you are serious about all this then you should advise the Airport Authority that it is your understanding that private hire Marshals are directing passengers and members of the public to private hire vehicles ranked up at the Airport without first observing if they have undertaken a private hire booking agreement. Advise the Airport Authority that this practice is illegal and the only viable remedy to curtail the illegal practice is for the "private hire company" to issue each passenger with a time stamped numbered docket, confirming the time of hire, the name of passenger, destination and driver and vehicle license numbers, for each booking. The Marshall would then be required to confirm that every passenger had the appropriate documentation before he directed them to a vehicle. Those passengers who book by telephone should be told that they had to first obtain a docket from the private hire booking office in the Airport terminal before the commencement of their journey. Alternately under special circumstances the passenger could be given the vehicle license plate and driver number over the telephone and informed to give those details to the Marshall or if no Marshall is available the driver of the vehicle they have booked. It would be to your advantage to undertake a shopping expedition to confirm that the Marshall is actually breaking any laws before you approach the Airport Authorities. You could get two people perhaps male and female armed with a portable tape recorder to approach the Marshall and ask him where they can obtain a Taxi If he sends them to the private hire rank then it could be safe to assume that this might well be his normal practice. However, the couple should make a point of asking the Marshall "if they need to pre book a vehicle before hand". Whatever the Marshall says can be used as evidence in any representations to the Airport Authority but first you have to establish your facts. You should also bring the activity to the attention of the taxi license enforcement officers and don't let them fob you off with the excuse they can't do anything about it. I might add that if the private hire drivers are working as Taxis up at the Airport then it will be extremely easy to catch them at it and prosecute. One Tactic is for two people to hire a private hire vehicle under conditions of public hire and drive straight to the nearest police station and prefer charges. If you undertake clandestine shopping trips then you are going to need two people and at least one tape recorder and it is advisable at some stage that you ask the driver if they are free to take you and any other comments that may help cement the case of illegal plying for hire. Once that is done you cane take the person to court on at least three counts, Driving without public hire insurance, Driving passengers for hire and reward without a hackney carriage drivers license and using an unlicensed vehicle for the purpose of plying for public hire. Normally just two charges are preferred those being driving without insurance and plying for public hire without a license. It is up to you what charges you prefer depending on the laws that have been broken. If the driver contacts his office and blows in the booking as a job either before or after you have entered the vehicle then in England and Wales the operator could be liable for prosecution under aiding and abetting. I don’t expect any movement on the information I’ve posted above because very few Taxi drivers if any actually go to the trouble of prosecuting private hire drivers. Mr Manchester Private hire driver could give you all the information about private prosecutions as drivers from his firm were always being prosecuted back in the early nineties and one person in particular. Regards JD |
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| Author: | skippy41 [ Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
With Scottish trespass law being different to England's, there is no private property in Scotland |
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| Author: | grandad [ Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
skippy41 wrote: With Scottish trespass law being different to England's, there is no private property in Scotland
Can I camp on the lawns at Balmoral then? 
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| Author: | gusmac [ Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
grandad wrote: skippy41 wrote: With Scottish trespass law being different to England's, there is no private property in Scotland Can I camp on the lawns at Balmoral then? |
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