Taxi Driver Online :: View topic - Allowing other than LTO to be HC vehicles

Some fifteen or so years ago our local licensing authority made a ruling that all Hackney Carriages were to be LTO types, meaning that many people had to invest heavily in their motors.

It has now been suggested that, because of problems at one single venue - discussed elsewhere on the forum, they may renege on that decision, and allow just about anything with wheels on to be a Hack.

As a firm believer in getting my retaliation in first – has anyone had any experience of this happening – and is there anything we can do?

I think we may be able to object on Euro/disabled legislation – but I am uncertain. Help???

We are just trying to protect our livelihoods, by a fair application of the laws as they exist – but the latest threat (opening all and sundry to be Hacks) just seems to be a typically unhelpful and threatening approach by the authorities towards us.

Some fifteen or so years ago our local licensing authority made a ruling that all Hackney Carriages were to be LTO types, meaning that many people had to invest heavily in their motors.

It has now been suggested that, because of problems at one single venue - discussed elsewhere on the forum, they may renege on that decision, and allow just about anything with wheels on to be a Hack.

As a firm believer in getting my retaliation in first – has anyone had any experience of this happening – and is there anything we can do?
I think we may be able to object on Euro/disabled legislation – but I am uncertain. Help???

Our area is not capped, and like many other locations around the country making a living is proving very hard, which explains why we have had to adopt protectionist measures, so far as we are able to.

The local attitude being that if times are slow in a local PHV office / circuit, it is ok to steal from the Hackneys, it seems.

To enter the Hackney “club”, the current requirement to have LTO type vehicles has meant a heavy financial commitment, and an ongoing burden (HP or loan) for many of us, but has at least self-limited the numbers of Hackneys to some extent.

If the council suddenly change the requirement, then an increased influx of new plates means more people chasing a finite market – and quite simply many will go under, including myself, in very short order.

So I suppose my question is not really about vehicle types, it is the principle and consequences of such a drastic change of direction – a collapse of the Hackney trade and the almost certain disappearance of the traditional London cab in the area –which I think would be a real shame.

Author:	Doc G [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:21 am ]
Post subject:	Allowing other than LTO to be HC vehicles
Some fifteen or so years ago our local licensing authority made a ruling that all Hackney Carriages were to be LTO types, meaning that many people had to invest heavily in their motors. It has now been suggested that, because of problems at one single venue - discussed elsewhere on the forum, they may renege on that decision, and allow just about anything with wheels on to be a Hack. As a firm believer in getting my retaliation in first – has anyone had any experience of this happening – and is there anything we can do? I think we may be able to object on Euro/disabled legislation – but I am uncertain. Help???

Author:	JD [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Allowing other than LTO to be HC vehicles
Doc G wrote: Some fifteen or so years ago our local licensing authority made a ruling that all Hackney Carriages were to be LTO types, meaning that many people had to invest heavily in their motors. It has now been suggested that, because of problems at one single venue - discussed elsewhere on the forum, they may renege on that decision, and allow just about anything with wheels on to be a Hack. As a firm believer in getting my retaliation in first – has anyone had any experience of this happening – and is there anything we can do? I think we may be able to object on Euro/disabled legislation – but I am uncertain. Help??? I can fully understand your concern and I can see your point. I personally believe in freedom choice and I don't subscribe to the turning circle logic that it is a necessity. It obviously serves as a restriction but I'm not convinced it is a necessity. Having said that, in answer to your question a council can do what they want after consultation with any stake holders who might be affected by any change of policy. In respect of Europe there is nothing in European legislation that will assist you in retaining the LTI vehicle or vehicles that conform to the turning circle requirement. If anything European policy on disability will work against you because European Transport ministers have already basically agreed that mixed fleets are best practice. What can you do to retain only those vehicles that conform to the turning circle requirement? To be quite honest I wouldn't worry on that score, both LTI and the Transport & General Workers Union will come to your aid in order to protect what they see as their individual vested interests. One can understand LTI's position but only God knows why the T&G are in favour of restricting driver choice? I take it you must be a member of a local taxi association of some sort down there in Chichester, which one might that be and are they doing a good job? From what other mediums or websites do you obtain relevant taxi information? Regards JD

Author:	MR T [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:54 am ]
Post subject:
LTI and the Transport & General Workers Union ...Don't forget Liverpool?

Author:	Doc G [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:17 am ]
Post subject:
The local taxi association (NTA affiliates) became only concerned with their own self interests unfortunately, and is operating a closed shop. So to have a voice, those left outside have had to form their own association– which we call the Alliance. We now greatly outnumber the Association, which is pretty much dead now, both in terms of its membership numbers and its strength. As a fledgling group we are still finding our feet, but have achieved much in a relatively short time – our taxi information (especially the law) is mainly gleaned from these pages - an incredible resource, if may say so. Chichester is relatively small, only just over 50 or so registered Hacks, earning opportunities are jealously guarded, and the new LO is having to deal with years of neglect and p*ss taking by PHV and out of area Hacks. We are just trying to protect our livelihoods, by a fair application of the laws as they exist – but the latest threat (opening all and sundry to be Hacks) just seems to be a typically unhelpful and threatening approach by the authorities towards us.

Author:	JD [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:36 am ]
Post subject:
Doc G wrote: We are just trying to protect our livelihoods, by a fair application of the laws as they exist – but the latest threat (opening all and sundry to be Hacks) just seems to be a typically unhelpful and threatening approach by the authorities towards us. Well that's very fare comment and a I might add a very straight answer to my question. Regards JD

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Author:	Bart [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Allowing other than LTO to be HC vehicles
Doc G wrote: Some fifteen or so years ago our local licensing authority made a ruling that all Hackney Carriages were to be LTO types, meaning that many people had to invest heavily in their motors. It has now been suggested that, because of problems at one single venue - discussed elsewhere on the forum, they may renege on that decision, and allow just about anything with wheels on to be a Hack. As a firm believer in getting my retaliation in first – has anyone had any experience of this happening – and is there anything we can do? I think we may be able to object on Euro/disabled legislation – but I am uncertain. Help??? Why on earth would you objet to being given more choice on what type of car you can use????????? Sounds like a great idea to me. I certanly wouldn't drive a LTI veichle if I wasn't forced too a Ford Galaxy is a far better car for half the price.

Author:	Doc G [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:03 am ]
Post subject:
Our area is not capped, and like many other locations around the country making a living is proving very hard, which explains why we have had to adopt protectionist measures, so far as we are able to. The local attitude being that if times are slow in a local PHV office / circuit, it is ok to steal from the Hackneys, it seems. To enter the Hackney “club”, the current requirement to have LTO type vehicles has meant a heavy financial commitment, and an ongoing burden (HP or loan) for many of us, but has at least self-limited the numbers of Hackneys to some extent. If the council suddenly change the requirement, then an increased influx of new plates means more people chasing a finite market – and quite simply many will go under, including myself, in very short order. So I suppose my question is not really about vehicle types, it is the principle and consequences of such a drastic change of direction – a collapse of the Hackney trade and the almost certain disappearance of the traditional London cab in the area –which I think would be a real shame.

Author:	gusmac [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:
Doc G wrote: Our area is not capped, and like many other locations around the country making a living is proving very hard, which explains why we have had to adopt protectionist measures, so far as we are able to. The local attitude being that if times are slow in a local PHV office / circuit, it is ok to steal from the Hackneys, it seems. To enter the Hackney “club”, the current requirement to have LTO type vehicles has meant a heavy financial commitment, and an ongoing burden (HP or loan) for many of us, but has at least self-limited the numbers of Hackneys to some extent. If the council suddenly change the requirement, then an increased influx of new plates means more people chasing a finite market – and quite simply many will go under, including myself, in very short order. So I suppose my question is not really about vehicle types, it is the principle and consequences of such a drastic change of direction – a collapse of the Hackney trade and the almost certain disappearance of the traditional London cab in the area –which I think would be a real shame. What other "controls" do you have on numbers? Do you have a local knowledge test? How hard is it to pass? Wouldn't you all be better off financially if you didn't have £35k of LTI cab to pay for? £5k for a decent second hand Mondeo would surely be much less burden. Working to line LTI's pockets seems a poor way to protect your trade.

Author:	Sussex [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:
I suppose one has to balance paying £35,000 for a motor and have 100 cabs working, or paying £5,000 for a motor and having 500 cars working. But taxis from elsewhere, and local PH, breaking the law doesn't help.

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