Taxi Driver Online

Good points JD.

I think the question needs asked.

regards

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

In plymouth we have our own act and as such are not under the '76 as the rest of the country except London.

Plymouth city council act 1975

23.—(1) The Council may fix the rates or fares within the city as well for time as distance, and all other charges in connection with the hire of a vehicle or with arrangements for the hire of a vehicle, to be paid in respect of the hire of hackney carriages by means of a table (hereafter in this section referred to as a " table of fares ") made or varied in accordance with the provisions of this section.


The previously quoted ’76 act.

1) A district council may fix the rates or fares within the district as well for time as distance, and all other charges in connection with the hire of a vehicle or with the arrangements for the hire of a vehicle, to be paid in respect of the hire of hackney carriages by means of a table (hereafter in this section referred to as a “table of fares”) made or varied in accordance with the provisions of this section.

As you can see the wording is the same except for "City" in Plymouth and "District" for everyone else.

My reading and understanding of the important bit "all other charges in connection with the hire of a vehicle" means that soiling can (and I think should) be included.

The advantage to drivers is that a soiling charge incurred can then be enforced by police as part of "Bilking" which is in the fraud act.

Sometimes a tariff can include the un-enforceable and Local Associations or even individuals should be keen to see these removed as they bring the whole tariff into disrepute.

The soiling charge should reflect not only the unpleasant task of cleaning, but also the "off road time" generated. If you have cloth seats, cleaning is one thing, drying is a time consumming other - and you can't carry passengers in a clean but wet seat.

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Chris The Fish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdlyi5mc ... re=related

So to answer the question in the name of the thread, yes I think the soiling charge is legal, it is a cost generated by the person doing the soiling.

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Chris The Fish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdlyi5mc ... re=related

But what has that got to do with the cost of the hiring?

If someone paid upfront for a job, then that's the hiring costs dealt with. So if they then spewed up, what basis could you charge for that under any taxi act?

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IDFIMH

54 Penalty for demanding more than the sum agreed for

If the proprietor or driver of any such hackney carriage, or if any other person on his behalf, agree beforehand with any person hiring such hackney carriage to take for any job a sum less than the fare allowed by this or the special Act, or any byelaw made thereunder, such proprietor or driver shall be liable to a penalty not exceeding [level 1 on the standard scale] if he exact or demand for such job more than the fare so agreed upon.

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58 Penalty on proprietors, etc convicted of overcharging

Every proprietor or driver of any such hackney carriage who is convicted of taking as a fare a greater sum than is authorized by any byelaw made under this or the special Act shall be liable to a penalty not exceeding [level 3 on the standard scale], and such penalty may be recovered before one justice; and in the conviction of such proprietor or driver an order may be included for payment of the sum so overcharged, over and above the penalty and costs; and such overcharge shall be returned to the party aggrieved.
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Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Just so I can get my point over, I think a soiling charge is a good thing, and if someone spews on, or wets, or worse, my seats, then he or she should pay for the clean up and for my lost working time.

But that doesn't mean the cab trade can demand it via a tariff card. Or at least they might not be able to.

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IDFIMH

its also an addition above and beyond the agreed original terms of the hiring just like "theres an extra pickup and drop"

A to B £50

A to B via C = extra

2 hours and a valet £25

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Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most

Magistrates' Court (468)

Date: 24 January 2009

Defendant: Charles Dickens.

Address: Anywhere, Anytown

Matter of Complaint (soiling of taxicab by way of urination)

The Complaint of Abraham. Lincoln.

Address: White House, Pennsylvania Avenue Washington DC. Tel Number: unlisted

Who upon oath states that the Defendant was responsible for the matter of Complaint of which particulars are given above and claims from the Defendant the following sum which is recoverable summarily as a civil debt.

Debt: £20

Taken and sworn before me.

(Signature)
John Davies

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Why is it legal? just because it is written on a piece of card? Under what authority does the law state you can demand a soiling charge? None. So what makes it legal?

Something you should know about byelaws.

If the nature of the subject matter and the general interpretation of the Act makes it clear that certain matters would not be germane, the authority must disregard those irrelevant collateral matters.

A soiling charge is not only collateral to the fare in fact it is so far removed from the fare that it is a seperate charge for an unrelated civil act.

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

[HOUSE OF LORDS]

R. H. GALLOWAY APPELLANT; AND THE MAYOR AND COMMONALTY OF LONDON RESPONDENTS.ET E CONTRA.

**Where persons have special powers conferred on them by Parliament for effecting a particular purpose they cannot be allowed to exercise those powers for any purpose of a "collateral" kind.**
_____________________________

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Administrative law Presumptions of legislative intent.

When construing the ambit of statutory powers expressed in language that lends itself to more than one interpretation, the courts may have recourse to common law presumptions of legislative intent.

These include presumptions against ousting the jurisdiction of the ordinary courts to determine the extent of statutory powers and the scope of civil rights and obligations; against recognising any power to impose charges on the subject in the absence of express authorisation;

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

The doctrine of ultra vires.

The rules which require statutory corporations to act intra vires and which are applied by the courts to local authorities consist not only of the limitation of powers but extend also to matters concerning the manner of the exercise of a discretion or duty and the procedure adopted. The following matters are among the relevant considerations in deciding whether any action of a local authority which is subject to challenge in the courts is lawful or is ultra vires:

*
(1) whether the action of the local authority is expressly or impliedly authorised or is within the general subsidiary powers of the authority;
*
(2) whether the action challenged has been exercised in good faith6 and for the purposes for which the power was conferred;
*
(3) whether the decision challenged was influenced to a significant extent by relevant considerations not being taken into account or by irrelevant considerations being taken into account;
*
(4) whether the decision challenged was manifestly unreasonable in the sense that it could not have been reached by any reasonable body;
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(5) whether the decision challenged was accompanied by a failure to comply with mandatory procedural requirements or other mistake of law;
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(6) whether a discretion has been exercised or a duty executed;
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(7) whether a discretion has been fettered by an improper application of general rules for policy established by the local authority;
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(8 whether the action taken by an appropriate authority, committee or person has been taken by an authority, committee or person with the powers for that purpose lawfully entrusted and exercised, or whether a lawfully entrusted authority, committee or person was correctly constituted when it decided the matter;
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(9) whether, in exercising powers or duties of a semi-judicial or judicial character, a local authority (or its authorised committee, sub-committee or officer) followed procedure contrary to the rules of natural justice.
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Byelaws must be intra vires.

A byelaw is invalid if it is not within the powers of the local authority which makes it.

**A local authority cannot by byelaw invest itself with power beyond that conferred on it by statute,**

nor may byelaws prohibit what the empowering enactment sought merely to regulate,

**or order one thing under a power to order another.**

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Is it legal or not?

The real question is this.

It's 0300, and you just picked up a punter who has exceeded the government advice on how many units of alcohol it is wise to imbibe by 15 fold.
They paid the required fare in advance to their humble abode on the fourteenth floor of Nelson Mandela House, so thats OK.

They turbo vomit in the back of your cab, and tell you "sorry mate, I'm skint, can't pay the soiling charge" (or more likely "huurgh fluurgh muurgh wheergh")

What are you to do?

Not going to get it, are you?

The elephant in the room, JD?

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Former taxi driver

Again, whilst I understand the points being made JD, I wonder about the extra charges.....Luggage, Carriage of Dogs etc.....not all passengers have either and are not charged.......not all passengers 'Turbo Vomit' (nice one Jimbo) and they arent charged.

If that could be answered then it would give all greater clarity?

regards

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin