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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:18 pm 
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Location: Essex, England
What gets at me sometimes is the Union's phraseology such as "Right to work" and "the right not to have to pay for work". Sounds a bit like the 1960s Communist kick to make the working classes happy with their lot, while the "bosses" (be they capitalist or just "party leaders") carried on putting the wealth in their pockets.

Surely the cab trade is a true capitalist niche, as it is almost entirely based upon "risk" these days. Work Saturday nights and suffer the most risk to earn the highest income. Pay (risk) a fortune on a plate, to work in the area of highest earnings?

Who or whom should bestow such rights to work etc?

Sorry Mick, I am not trying to have a go at you mate, I just hate all the "right to work" type of soundbites.

What we need is a level playing field and a bit of fairness and give and take all round. What we need first, is the removal of artificial protections such as plate limitations (they serve only the PH business expansion), and the removal of the present two-tier system in favour of something that works better, is so simple that it is fully understood by the public, and doesnt have the "them and us" bitterness that is seen in some areas between PH and Hackney Carriage.

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There is Significant Unmet Demand for my Opinion.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:32 pm 
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Dusty Bin wrote:
As I think I said, there seems to be a new procedural requirement under the Enterprise Act to consult interested parties, so this could be relevant.

I would like to know how they decide who the interested parties are, and how they consult them!!!

Dusty :?


I would say that those of us who sent in our views and experiences to the OFT study, will be deemed interested parties.

Of course the national unions, association, federations etc etc, will also be viewed as interested parties. However they only represent the views of some of their members, or more likely the views of the submission's author.

But the main way of being an interested party, is to make sure OFT know you are an interested party, and the only way of doing that is by giving your views and submissions to their report.

In other words, APATHY is not an option.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:39 pm 
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One big problem is that many simply don't know about OFT, I think that's why plate values are still booming in some areas, whereas if anything you might expect them to at least stagnate until the uncertainty is over, or even drop in value.

However, assuming it goes to the CC, everyone will have a chance to have thier say, and I think a lot more people will know the score by then.

As for the referral consultation, the OFT guidance says that they will have effectively done much of it during their contact with interested parties during the study.

Dusty


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:43 pm 
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Location: Essex, England
Absolutely Sussex Man (who is not in favour of a phased approach?).

With Government Consultation Papers, almost anyone can make submissions, even simpletons like myself. I phoned up about the DDA and got a "Consultation pack" arrive in the post. While very tempted to write "Bo*****s" on it and send it back, I actually read through it and made a contribution which resulted in some interesting subsequent correspondance. So they do take individual's views seriously. A point that was made to me, was that if enough individuals said the same thing, then serious considerations were given to the appropriate issues.

So, as you indicate, it's up to us, to make our voices heard.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:48 pm 
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Location: Essex, England
I used to be seriously apathetic, but now I just don't care anymore.

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There is Significant Unmet Demand for my Opinion.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:38 am 
Mick wrote:
Good God Wharfie,

Are you so small minded that you can't see that changes don't have to be so dramatic or as immediate as you suggest.

Yet again you berate a former brother member who is also a brother union member, I believe, in the deteriation of his business, however slight, the sad thing is you are so blind you cannot see that your statements are completely unfounded as well as being mis-informative and argumentative.

""ha" "ha" your going down the pan and your going to lose all the money you paid for your plate you mug" is hardly the kind of attitude one would expect from someone who claims to have strong trade union beliefs. Particularly when the same union you profess to support wholeheartedly accept that people have the right to work and through a well constructed policy of managed growth aim to provide it whilst protecting the incomes of those CURRENTLY WORKING IN THE TRADE. Please note the emphasis on the words in capital letters as owner drivers who have bought their own right to work are entitled to protct their investment as is anyone else who has heavily invested in any business.

We have had this argument many times, there will never be agreement between those who have and those who havn't and we will never see it as long as people have no consideration for the position of others, as in the same way as Sussex man and yourself don't seem to be bothered about premiums allready paid those individuals who have paid won't be bothered about you or him not getting a plate. This is why the union have a policy of increasing nubers to allow more plates gradually increasing numbers and gradually decreasing premiums.

The dinosaurs of the trade will become extinct, but I don't think that current attitudes will see progression, and thats attitudes from either side.

B. Lucky


Michael,
it is how youve read it, investment you call it what investment?
it was a bung to gain rights given for nothing!

and the other thing Mick, yes there needs to be far reaching reforms beccause the investment is not delivering service and leaving people stranded.

as for the gentle climbs as you put it Cannot remember t and g saying that during negotiations on the transport act! which by the way is law.

get off that high horse of yours, there are many brothers out there who will never have a plate because they cannot get the quids toggether, now you think that is fair.

and what about our brothers who have to drive certain vehicles that are leeky, draughty, to save brothers jobs in the midlands when more brothers could be in work, making and fitting alternatives?

what a world we live in?

Wharfie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:08 am 
The old chestnut of the T&G protecting LTI again.

Why is it that the T&G support the LTI models then?

PUBLIC SAFETY MATE thats why and being a member of the union you know exactly their stance, european full body M1 specification.

You refer to the payments exchanged for plates as a "bung" inferring that the money exchanged was in some way illegal. Plates have changed hands for the past 6 years with the councils full knowledge and acceptance here in Gateshead.

What a world YOU live in Wharfy mate, brother drivers is it, I'd just like to know what the colour of YOUR sky is.

No-one is left stranded in Gateshead exept for those booking P/H matey, I was finished and at home by 3am both Friday and Saturday night just gone mate and our clubs kick out at 2am, I left our ONLY NIGHT rank at 1am tonight mate cause THERE WERE MORE SEATS IN TAXIS OUTSIDE THAN THERE WERE PEOPLE IN THE CLUB, can you believe that Wharfy mate some of the blokes sitting at the back of the rank will wait an hour and still pull off empty, yeah massive un-met demand and loads of people stranded. Oh and there were still P/H scumbags flimping the area. ( I will use the word scumbag in the same way as Sussex Man uses the word leech and queue jumpers against H/C, this is therefore not mean't in any way to be applied to all P/H drivers but is applied to the ones that act illegally and put the publics lives at risk).

Oh aye, just how many current plateholders actually got their "rights given for nothing", I suggest that if any the numbers are very low indeed.

B. Lucky


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:23 am 
Mick wrote:
The old chestnut of the T&G protecting LTI again.

Why is it that the T&G support the LTI models then?

PUBLIC SAFETY MATE thats why and being a member of the union you know exactly their stance, european full body M1 specification.

You refer to the payments exchanged for plates as a "bung" inferring that the money exchanged was in some way illegal. Plates have changed hands for the past 6 years with the councils full knowledge and acceptance here in Gateshead.

What a world YOU live in Wharfy mate, brother drivers is it, I'd just like to know what the colour of YOUR sky is.

No-one is left stranded in Gateshead exept for those booking P/H matey, I was finished and at home by 3am both Friday and Saturday night just gone mate and our clubs kick out at 2am, I left our ONLY NIGHT rank at 1am tonight mate cause THERE WERE MORE SEATS IN TAXIS OUTSIDE THAN THERE WERE PEOPLE IN THE CLUB, can you believe that Wharfy mate some of the blokes sitting at the back of the rank will wait an hour and still pull off empty, yeah massive un-met demand and loads of people stranded. Oh and there were still P/H scumbags flimping the area. ( I will use the word scumbag in the same way as Sussex Man uses the word leech and queue jumpers against H/C, this is therefore not mean't in any way to be applied to all P/H drivers but is applied to the ones that act illegally and put the publics lives at risk).

Oh aye, just how many current plateholders actually got their "rights given for nothing", I suggest that if any the numbers are very low indeed.

B. Lucky


mICK,
IT ISNT AN OLD CHESTNUT ITS FACT, WE DRIVERS AND OWNERS LOSE OUT TO THEM EVERYTIME

what about pergeots Mick do our brothers at pergeot build unsafe cars?

the transport research lab, where our brothers work Mick, when they said there was no case for a 25 foot turning circle, was our brothers lying?

glad you got home early at weekend Mick, it is quiet at the moment, now you are one of us, scoundrels them ph arnet they?

by the way mick why did you leave private hire, heard you were the tops?
did you finish the job with implementing excel or midas? you promised to tell us about it?

Now Mick about these hard words you have for me? nowthen what do you call it? ah abuse Mick you call it abuse! why are you being so abusive?
youd bar members who behaved like you do wouldnt you mick?


well you lads are doing a super job clearing those streets, see what can be done without premiums getting in the way?

now you have superdooper LTI, would you reccomend them for all taxis then? instead of saloons?

sure you would.

the sky is grey at the moment mick grey!

wharfie


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:49 am 
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Andy wrote:
What gets at me sometimes is the Union's phraseology such as "Right to work" and "the right not to have to pay for work".


That is, unless paying a T&G member to hire or buy a plate :)

Dusty


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:51 am 
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Mick wrote:
Why is it that the T&G support the LTI models then?

PUBLIC SAFETY MATE thats why and being a member of the union you know exactly their stance, european full body M1 specification.



Funny that Mick, I've never heard of the T&G supporting LTI in saloon areas, in fact quite the reverse, so the union can't be that bothered about safety.

Dusty


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:53 am 
Dusty Bin wrote:
Andy wrote:
What gets at me sometimes is the Union's phraseology such as "Right to work" and "the right not to have to pay for work".


That is, unless paying a T&G member to hire or buy a plate :)

Dusty


now now dusty that is not the type of comment expected by an administrator (at least not on his own site)

if you are going to go bellow the belt do like mick and move to another forum like taxiandprivatehireforums.

Wharfie :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:54 am 
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Mick wrote:
Oh aye, just how many current plateholders actually got their "rights given for nothing", I suggest that if any the numbers are very low indeed.



Out of 507 plates in Dundee, I think it's about 507, give or take none!!

That's not a good example though Mick, I was just being facetious!

In most places it's a lot less, only a few.

Like Mr Royden in the Wirral!!

Dusty :)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:01 am 
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Wharfie wrote:
if you are going to go bellow the belt do like mick and move to another forum like taxiandprivatehireforums.



'Below the belt' Wharfy, moi??

It's just my rapier-like wit and incisive critique, that's all.

Err, OK then, it's below the belt :lol:

Dusty


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:04 am 
Dusty Bin wrote:
Mick wrote:
Oh aye, just how many current plateholders actually got their "rights given for nothing", I suggest that if any the numbers are very low indeed.



Out of 507 plates in Dundee, I think it's about 507, give or take none!!

That's not a good example though Mick, I was just being facetious!

In most places it's a lot less, only a few.

Like Mr Royden in the Wirral!!

Dusty :)



he doesnt know about Mr Royden in the Wirral!

Mr Royden got a free plate of Wirral council, Mr Royden was the t and g man there.

after a while he began to staunchly oppose anymore new plates, so the council decided to issue more particularly in unrepresentive zones.

After the council aggreed a further tranche my Royden took them to court on the grounds that they were invading his human rights.

anyway, he lost but not before he had told the court that the t and g backed him to the hilt.

so the court awarded costs against Mr Royden, and wait for it.............all his t and g brothers individually in the wirral!

so he appealed and was laughed out of court.
it cost a bob or two.
Mr Royden was like you mick he would not listen.
Wharfie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:25 am 
It ain't a few up here mate, and still no comment on council knowledge.

Premiums have not been abolished up here Wharfy :o I wonder why you have made that presumption.

I am back on the ranks, yes a correct statement, but what am I driving.

Have I got myself another WAV and another NON-TRANSFERABLE PLATE?
Have I paid a premium and got another saloon?
Am I a jockey on a WAV?
Am I a jockey on a saloon?

The reason I left P/H was for purely personal reasons I do not wish to discuss on here.
Just incidentally as you don't wish to discuss your own in any detail at all.

What I will say is that not only the LTI models have E.F.B M1 ratings when it comes to WAV's.
Incidentally, how many E,F,G and H reg saloons are still in adequate condition to pass a council taxi test, cause we have loads of them on our streets, and if one was to buy a brand new TXII and it was to last as long as some of these, no-one could argue it wasn't value for money, even at £35K.

You see its not the vehicles state at manufacture that is at question here, its the quality of conversion and subsequent testing that ensures its safety for public use, if your vehicle is not of a sufficiant standard and it fails to protect a passenger properly if you were to have an accident, will you be able to live with yourself.

Thinking about how getting what you want at any cost maybe shouldn't be the attitude of a person who would consider themselves to be professional.

B. Lucky :twisted:


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