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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:16 pm 
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With the latest court cases hot off the press and still ringing in our eyes I wonder how long it will be before the so called leadership of our trade and the licensing departments throughout the country get their head around the significance of these cases.

How long will it be before Mr Jim Button responds to the criticism of Mr. Justice Collins in the Gladen case in respect of Mr Button’s independent interpretation of section 46 of the 1976 act?

How long will it be before the NTA and other organisations issue guidance to it’s members with regard to these cases, especially the Gladen case.

Well, I suspect most of those who speak on behalf of the Taxi trade haven’t got a clue as to the significance of these cases. It took most in our trade best part of a hundred years to realise that only Taxis could ply for hire on a railway station or indeed at any public place where the public gathered.

It also took Watford Council the same amount of time to realise the same thing. One might pose the question as to what type of people we have running these organisations. With regard to councils, Watford are not unique, the vast majority of Council’s haven’t got a clue when it comes to interpreting case law. It seams the only case law that some of these councils know is the case law that appertains to driver misdemeanor. Even then, as we can see by the Gladen case, they get it totally wrong.

So how long will it be before our trade reads my submission and finally takes note of the significant impact of the Gladen case? How long before Councils realise the impotency they now face with respect to regulating Hackney drivers in reference to a private hire operator’s licence.

It is well known fact that some organisations who make decisions on our behalf and have the audacity to say they speak for the Taxi trade, are sometimes a little conspicuous by their absence. Especially when it comes to departing information to anyone who is not a fully signed up member?

You only have to look at the appalling website's most of these organisations produce to realise that information to the masses is not one of their top priorities. Most of these websites are woefully lacking in substance and information. If we all, as individuals, behaved in the same way as some of these organisations and kept information to ourselves, the MAJOIRITY in our trade would be forever living in a land of perpetual Darkness.

Anyway, the point that needs to be conveyed is the significance of this Gladen Ruling. TDO is now renowned for producing firsts and here is another one.

The Gladen Case centred around the prosecution of a licensed Brentwood Hackney carriage driver who the council alleged was breaking the law by operating his vehicle contrary to section 46 and 55 of the 1976 Miscellaneous Provisions act. The act in question was brought about to regulate the unlicensed private hire trade, the act also includes certain limited provisions to regulate Hackney carriages.

Before I talk about the case itself, I think it should be known that Mr. Gladden went through a very traumatic time, from the beginning to the end of this case. He was subject to licensing officers invading his privacy both at home and at work, he was constantly under observation from Brentwood licensing officers and fellow Hackney carriage drivers were brought to give evidence against him. (One wonders if these Drivers suffered intimidation to do so)?

Mr Gladen ultimately had his license revoked by Brentwood council, which in turn was the catalyst to this now famous court case. Mr Gladen will be the first to acknowledge that the kudos for this case should be attributed to his legal team Kearns and co. They advised him every step of the way. Mr Gladen also has high praise for Mr. Rowland of the Private hire association. Mr Gladen said Mr. Rowland was very supportive and a great help.


So now, we all know a little more of the Background to this case but what does the legal ruling mean in general terms?

Well for a start, it means a man has been persecuted because of the wrongful interpretation of an act of Parliament by an ex Manchester licensing solicitor namely Mr. James Button.

Mr. Button’s wrongful interpretation of the law was put forward by Barrister James Findlay acting on behalf of Brentwood licensing Authority. Council argued that, Mr. Button’s interpretation was the “correct” legal definition, which should apply in this sorry case. The Judiciary however, thankfully for Mr. Gladen, was able to interpret the law correctly and not as how Mr. Button and Brentwood council thought it should be interpreted.

Now lets dissect this momentous ruling.

This ruling for all concerned brings to bear the scrutiny that should be applied when interpreting the 1976 act in relation to the 1847 act. The Justices in this case have made it quite clear that the two acts are completely different and that the 1976 act has nothing whatsoever to do with the act of 1847 except where it specifically refers to Hackney carriages.

Brentwood council put forward the argument that the 1976 act regulated hackney carriages because the Word “operator” in section 46 was a catch all reference that not only applied to Private hire vehicles but also to any other vehicle including a licensed Hackney carriage driver.

The court on the other hand deemed the words “Operate and Operator” in this particular act namely the 1976 act was specific to Private hire vehicles and excluded Hackney carriage vehicles by way of provisions in same act.


Brentwood Council and every other council have been interpreting the law incorrectly since its inception in 1976. With the guidance of Jim Button, they placed a wider legal interpretation on the word “Operator” than the legislation legally allowed.

The consequences of this ruling are far reaching, I have set out some observations below as to how the law affects the Taxi trade. Perhaps some members have their own observations.

In my opinion, the following rulings apply.

The Ruling means that Hackney carriage drivers or their agents can take bookings for the services of Hackney carriages without the need to obtain an operator's licence.

The ruling means that a Hackney Driver or agent can take bookings from anywhere in the country for a hiring that starts and finishes anywhere in the country.

The ruling means that those Taxi companies that operate a private hire booking service and use only Hackney carriage licensed vehicles do not need to pay for or obtain a private hire operator’s licence.

The ruling means that any Taxi operator who has in the past, been made to pay for a private hire operator’s licence in order to conduct their business and who did not at anytime have or intend to have any private hire vehicles on their system, “may”, in my opinion, be eligible for compensation.


We are no doubt glad that Mr. Gladen won his license back but he is also owed a dept of gratitude. It is owed to him because out of his protracted persecution came a ruling that will have a lasting effect on the Taxi trade for many years to come.

Best Wishes

JD


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:17 pm 
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John,

The Directors of the NTA are to meet in Manchester next week, I will ask my regional director to forward me the NTA view of the case.

If you were an NTA member you could do the same.

Regarding your comments about the lack of information on websites, I know this is being worked on and I have been assured it, given time will improve.

However, unfortunately, the finances of the NTA are such that the income is many times less than the average income of a provincial taxi. If you can recall the bucket collectors of the NTTG, who are from your area, they collected in the region of £50k from the Nations hackney trade, more than double what the NTA achieve in subscriptions.

Give the NTA £50k and I guarantee you that you will have an up to date. state of the art website, full of up to the minute events and comments.

Regards

Captain cab


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:29 pm 
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Location: Plymouth, i think, i'll just check the A to Z!
captain cab wrote:
Give the NTA £50k and I guarantee you that you will have an up to date. state of the art website, full of up to the minute events and comments.


:shock: :shock:

give a media student at you local uni £500 and free taxis for a year and you'll have a great website.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:23 pm 
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JD wrote:
Well, I suspect most of those who speak on behalf of the Taxi trade haven’t got a clue as to the significance of these cases. It took most in our trade best part of a hundred years to realise that only Taxis could ply for hire on a railway station or indeed at any public place where the public gathered.

The problem both sides of the trade have in term of proper leadership, is that the existing representation is only as good as the limited membership allow it to be. If more than 5% of our trade was in a union/association, I would be amazed. :sad:

I also very much doubt any of the major unions/associations have enough funds to back Crown or High Court cases. So who is at fault, those that try their hardest on limited resources, or the 95% who sit on their arses doing nothing?

I suspect in those hundred years or so, tens times as much money has been spent either defending or attacking quotas, than all the other issues combined. [-(

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:30 pm 
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JD wrote:
It also took Watford Council the same amount of time to realise the same thing. One might pose the question as to what type of people we have running these organisations. With regard to councils, Watford are not unique, the vast majority of Council’s haven’t got a clue when it comes to interpreting case law. It seams the only case law that some of these councils know is the case law that appertains to driver misdemeanor. Even then, as we can see by the Gladen case, they get it totally wrong.

The reason why councils get away with not having a clue is due to the fact that most drivers don't either. But even if a driver is clued up, unless his lively-hood is under threat (as per Mr Gladen), then he isn't going to front up against the bottom-less-pit that councils seem to find when defending stupidity (as per Plymouth). :sad:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:41 pm 
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JD wrote:
Mr Gladen will be the first to acknowledge that the kudos for this case should be attributed to his legal team Kearns and co. They advised him every step of the way. Mr Gladen also has high praise for Mr. Rowland of the Private hire association. Mr Gladen said Mr. Rowland was very supportive and a great help. [/b]

So now, we all know a little more of the Background to this case but what does the legal ruling mean in general terms?

Well for a start, it means a man has been persecuted because of the wrongful interpretation of an act of Parliament by an ex Manchester licensing solicitor namely Mr. James Button.

Perhaps the council's bill should be forwarded to Mr Button. :shock:

But again we see lazy council officialdom. Just because some bloke writes his own views in a book, it suddenly becomes law. And because of that some poor sod could have lost his license.

As for Kearns, methinks they are not great fans of Mr Button, which is maybe why they are writing their own legal book.

Let's hope they don't fall into the same trap.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:42 pm 
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Quote:
Sussex Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Gladen V Brentwood and the law.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JD wrote:
It also took Watford Council the same amount of time to realise the same thing. One might pose the question as to what type of people we have running these organisations. With regard to councils, Watford are not unique, the vast majority of Council’s haven’t got a clue when it comes to interpreting case law. It seams the only case law that some of these councils know is the case law that appertains to driver misdemeanor. Even then, as we can see by the Gladen case, they get it totally wrong.

The reason why councils get away with not having a clue is due to the fact that most drivers don't either. But even if a driver is clued up, unless his lively-hood is under threat (as per Mr Gladen), then he isn't going to front up against the bottom-less-pit that councils seem to find when defending stupidity (as per Plymouth).


an older and wiser colleague of mine, who has now sadly departed, once did tell me that any solicitor worth his salt would have his or her own business, the point was that those working for LA's are those who cannot stand on their own

regards

Captain cab


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:42 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
John,

The Directors of the NTA are to meet in Manchester next week, I will ask my regional director to forward me the NTA view of the case.

If you were an NTA member you could do the same.

Regarding your comments about the lack of information on websites, I know this is being worked on and I have been assured it, given time will improve.

However, unfortunately, the finances of the NTA are such that the income is many times less than the average income of a provincial taxi. If you can recall the bucket collectors of the NTTG, who are from your area, they collected in the region of £50k from the Nations hackney trade, more than double what the NTA achieve in subscriptions.

Give the NTA £50k and I guarantee you that you will have an up to date. state of the art website, full of up to the minute events and comments.

Regards

Captain cab


With all due respect to you Cab, who I know probably works hard at being a good representitive to our trade, I have to say my concern is aimed at all those organisations that stand under the banner of collective representation. That is not singling out the NTA but is a criticsm of all such organisations who purpourt to represent our trade as a whole yet display selective administration when it comes to freely available information.

I am off the opinion, that if anyone sits around the top table and has the audacity to say they are there to represent my views and the views of thousands of Taxi drivers like me, then those officials owe me a duty of care.

Their duty of care is to make sure that I and the thousands they claim to represent are informed as to the agenda they are putting forward on our behalf and in the name of the Taxi trade as a whole. They also owe us a duty of care to inform us how their decisions will impact on the Taxi trade as a whole.

That duty of care goes beyond subscribing to one or any particular organisation.

If they can’t do that then I would rather them be on record as saying they represent the self interest of XYZ rather than them saying "we are the voice of the Taxi trade and represent the trade as whole".

With regard to websites and information, I might add this. There is no finance involved in setting up a website. All that’s involved is a little experience in HTML and the dedication to impart relevant information about the Taxi trade. It is wearing a bit thin to suggest the NTA website is undergoing a facelift, they have had plenty of time since you made that comment several weeks ago that they are carrying out adjustments.

Having said that, the NTTA doesn’t even have a website but seeing as how they are a one trick pony, that doesn’t surprise me in the least.

In the end it all comes down to standards and ability, either you believe in freedom of information or you don’t. I just happen to be someone who does.

Best wishes

JD


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:49 pm 
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JD wrote:
The Ruling means that Hackney carriage drivers or their agents can take bookings for the services of Hackney carriages without the need to obtain an operator's licence.

The ruling means that a Hackney Driver or agent can take bookings from anywhere in the country for a hiring that starts and finishes anywhere in the country.

The ruling means that those Taxi companies that operate a private hire booking service and use only Hackney carriage licensed vehicles do not need to pay for or obtain a private hire operator’s licence.

The ruling means that any Taxi operator who has in the past, been made to pay for a private hire operator’s licence in order to conduct their business and who did not at anytime have or intend to have any private hire vehicles on their system, “may”, in my opinion, be eligible for compensation.

The first three, yes, unless the council amends their bylaws, and of course the Minister agrees to it. Both highly unlikely (in my opinion) to happen.

The last one, now that would be nice. But I wouldn't hold my breath. :oops:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:26 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
JD wrote:
The Ruling means that Hackney carriage drivers or their agents can take bookings for the services of Hackney carriages without the need to obtain an operator's licence.

The ruling means that a Hackney Driver or agent can take bookings from anywhere in the country for a hiring that starts and finishes anywhere in the country.

The ruling means that those Taxi companies that operate a private hire booking service and use only Hackney carriage licensed vehicles do not need to pay for or obtain a private hire operator’s licence.

The ruling means that any Taxi operator who has in the past, been made to pay for a private hire operator’s licence in order to conduct their business and who did not at anytime have or intend to have any private hire vehicles on their system, “may”, in my opinion, be eligible for compensation.

The first three, yes, unless the council amends their bylaws, and of course the Minister agrees to it. Both highly unlikely (in my opinion) to happen.

The last one, now that would be nice. But I wouldn't hold my breath. :oops:


I did say "may" Sussex. There may be provision in the financial services act to cover an unneeded burden brought about through maladministration. However that would be for a competent finance local authority legal eagle to determine.

Best wishes

JD


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:34 pm 
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JD wrote:
However that would be for a competent finance local authority legal eagle to determine.

And one has to wonder if one did exist, why they wouldn't be earning 10 times as much in private practise? :?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:36 pm 
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i understand the nta loves volunteers john, and you seem ideal, may i suggest you email the nta with some suggestions, im sure theyll be considered.

regards

captain cab


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:44 am 
I am glad Button has been unmasked for what he is a pillock

and I have warned this site including bin man about him loads of times.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:15 am 
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The Button book has some good point where he disects court judgements. But he does fall into the trap a number of times when he decides for himself the law of the land.

And many councils follow him like the Pied Piper. :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:39 pm 
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The Button book has some good point where he disects court judgements. But he does fall into the trap a number of times when he decides for himself the law of the land.

And many councils follow him like the Pied Piper.


like most of our trade follow the gospel according to PHM? [-o<

regards

Captain Cab


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