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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:39 am 
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Charles makes a good point. CCTV can only be used for declared purposes. It's conceivable you could construct an argument that monitoring of a taxi rank may not be a declared purpose. You'll need to FOI the details for the CCTV to see what it says.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:47 pm 
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The third paragraph states the suspension notice would have immediate effect which would be illegal. A period of 21 days' notice (Amendment 2A 2006 to LG(MP) Act 1976) is required by law except where the driver can be considered an on-going risk to public safety e.g. for alleged offences involving violence, indecency or dishonesty if he continues to hold a HC/PH driver's licence. The reason why immediate suspension would be appropriate would need to be stated in the suspension notice (Amendment 2B of the aforementioned.)

An offence that so far has only attracted warnings could not possibly fall into an Amendment 2B category especially considering that the offence of over-ranking is essentially no more than a parking offence
which would otherwise attract no more than a £30 non-endorsable FPN.

Furthermore, a suspension of one month could be considered disproportionate by any magistrates' court.

Easy pickings for solicitors this one.

Why are local councils generally so stupid?

Unfortunately, overt CCTV can be used anywhere. It is only covert operations that fall under the restrictions imposed by RIPA.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:52 pm 
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Steven Toy wrote:
The third paragraph states the suspension notice would have immediate effect which would be illegal. A period of 21 days' notice (Amendment 2A 2006 to LG(MP) Act 1976) is required by law except where the driver can be considered an on-going risk to public safety e.g. for alleged offences involving violence, indecency or dishonesty if he continues to hold a HC/PH driver's licence. The reason why immediate suspension would be appropriate would need to be stated in the suspension notice (Amendment 2B of the aforementioned.)

An offence that so far has only attracted warnings could not possibly fall into an Amendment 2B category especially considering that the offence of over-ranking is essentially no more than a parking offence
which would otherwise attract no more than a £30 non-endorsable FPN.

Furthermore, a suspension of one month could be considered disproportionate by any magistrates' court.

Easy pickings for solicitors this one.

Why are local councils generally so stupid?

Unfortunately, overt CCTV can be used anywhere. It is only covert operations that fall under the restrictions imposed by RIPA.


The council have stated that in their opinion the drivers will be considered an ongoing risk to the public because they are putting the public at risk by not being on the rank. Now how is the driver going to appeal against this when there is no appeals procedure for immediate suspension?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:48 pm 
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what the driver needs to do is contact the Ministry for Transport and speak to the top man and explain his situation .

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:23 pm 
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MR T wrote:
what the driver needs to do is contact the Ministry for Transport and speak to the top man and explain his situation .


And this will achieve what?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:28 pm 
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Ththere is always the right of appeal against a suspension even one dubiously issued under Amendment 2B.

Also, given that the suspension is punitive and of fixed duration (one month) would they be able to demonstraye on appeal that the driver poses an on-going risk to public safety justifying the suspension taking iimmediate effect but after a month he will no longer pose the same risk?

2B is reserved for the fact that an individual holding a licence poses a risk to the public. It is not a punishment.

A 2B Amendment notice can alsso be issued for health reasons ...until such time as the driver has recceived satisfactory medical clearance.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:33 pm 
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Steven Toy wrote:
Ththere is always the right of appeal against a suspension even one dubiously issued under Amendment 2B


You may be able to appeal but under this bit of legislation haven't they made it so that you don't keep your badge pending the appeal?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:07 pm 
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grandad wrote:
MR T wrote:
what the driver needs to do is contact the Ministry for Transport and speak to the top man and explain his situation .


And this will achieve what?
Well he is the man that put together the best practice guidelines.... and he knows how they should be interpreted.... the last time I was speaking to him he was asking for proof that councils where wrongly interpreting this very law..... he has been known to ring up licensing officers and asked them what they're playing at......

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:58 pm 
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MR T wrote:
grandad wrote:
MR T wrote:
what the driver needs to do is contact the Ministry for Transport and speak to the top man and explain his situation .


And this will achieve what?
Well he is the man that put together the best practice guidelines.... and he knows how they should be interpreted.... the last time I was speaking to him he was asking for proof that councils where wrongly interpreting this very law..... he has been known to ring up licensing officers and asked them what they're playing at......


Fair enough.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:00 pm 
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Good point. That is worth knowing. Would he have been behind the amendments to Section 61 in 2006?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:27 am 
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Steven Toy wrote:
Good point. That is worth knowing. Would he have been behind the amendments to Section 61 in 2006?
No.... he's only a new be.... but he has spent more time going round the country in the last 12 months than all his predecessors before him ... Paul Lawry.... I might be spelling his second name wrong.... e-mail him he will respond ....

http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-lawry/21/5ba/396

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:43 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Steven Toy wrote:
Ththere is always the right of appeal against a suspension even one dubiously issued under Amendment 2B


You may be able to appeal but under this bit of legislation haven't they made it so that you don't keep your badge pending the appeal?

I think the wording is you don't automatically keep your license. A court can decide to allow a driver to carry on working.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:37 am 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
Steven Toy wrote:
Ththere is always the right of appeal against a suspension even one dubiously issued under Amendment 2B


You may be able to appeal but under this bit of legislation haven't they made it so that you don't keep your badge pending the appeal?

I think the wording is you don't automatically keep your license. A court can decide to allow a driver to carry on working.


So if the council mush decides on a Friday teatime that in his opinion the driver is an ongoing threat to the public, how soon can he get a hearing at a magistrates court to decide if he can keep his license?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:41 pm 
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grandad wrote:
So if the council mush decides on a Friday teatime that in his opinion the driver is an ongoing threat to the public, how soon can he get a hearing at a magistrates court to decide if he can keep his license?

Make an application Saturday morning, and if unchallenged the court will put aside the suspension until a full hearing.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:50 am 
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The decision as to whether the suspension falls under the 2A amendment for punitive suspensions of fixed duration requiring 21 days's notice before it takes effect or a 2B Amendment for non-punitive suspensions intended to remove a driver from posing a risk to public safety of indeterminate duration until such risk has passed, I.e. A particular condition has been met, rests with licensing enforcement officers not with the courts.

However, drivers wrongfully given suspensions taking immediate effect can appeal and such appeal could be allowed on the basis that the driver had a right to 21 days notice. S/he could also seek compensation for loss of earnings.

It is clear in this instance that the one month suspension is intended to be a punishment and serve as a deterrent therefore the 21 day rule will apply.

Any coonection between obstructing the public highway and posing a risk to public safety is a highly dubious and tenuous one and is illegally intended to act as a greater deterrent simply by bypassing due process.

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