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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:26 am 
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mancityfan wrote:
The argument in the original letter about conditions on hackney carriage drivers’ licences is one that we have faced on a number of occasions, and one which licensing officers and Mr Button, and some people at the Department for Transport, seek to deny. However, the fact is quite simple: the matter has been tested at Administrative Court level; therefore it is binding on all cases where a hackney carriage driver is purported to have been in breach of his “conditions”.



They quote section 57 of the LGMPA as being a clear indicator that they can attach conditions to a hackney carriage driver licence. This was tested before the Courts in the cross-border case of Bromsgrove –v- Murtagh, where section 57 was mooted as being an empowering section of the legislation. HHJ Kennedy would not even consider the argument, saying that section 57 is merely empowering the local authority to ask questions so that they can decide whether to issue a licence or not.



Section 46 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 doesn’t mention conditions of licence at all, nor does it empower a local authority to do it; this was definitely looked at by the Court in the Wathen case. I am fully aware that many councils have on the advice of Mr Button decided to issue joint licences. I can assure you that as far as I am concerned, if a hackney carriage driver is driving a hackney carriage vehicle, conditions attached to a private hire licence will not apply to him, even if it is a joint licence. The Court has held that you cannot attach conditions to hackney carriage drivers’ licences, and therefore to seek to circumvent this decided position could not be held to be sound.



I would ask a return question, which would be: What power is there contained in the legislation to attach private hire conditions of licence to anybody other than a private hire driver? If it had been the intention of Parliament to allow conditions to be attached to a hackney carriage driver licence, they would have done so.



On one further point, let’s be perfectly clear on this: the 1847 Act allows the insertion and writing of byelaws, which have to be approved by the Secretary of State. The reason for this is to generate a piece of legislation whereby if drivers break the rules, they can ben charged with an offence. If you look through the 1976 Act there are any number of sections which specifically detail offences. If you go through the Town Police Clauses Act you will see that all the offences are specified and attached to byelaws. It might be wonderful to think that council officials are empowered to make up the rules as they go along; clearly they are not.



I have to say that since the Wathen case, and the birth of the dual licence which was generated by that case, I have still to see any hackney carriage driver prosecuted for any breaches because, when you issue a summons you have to state to the Court under which section of which Act you are bringing that prosecution. Clearly if it is a breach of conditions, no Magistrates’ Court in the country could ignore the Wathen case because they are bound by the decisions of the Administrative Court and cannot themselves overturn them.



So whilst it might be jolly good fun to force hackney carriage drivers to toe the line by indicating that they are in breach of conditions, you still cannot get away from the clear fact that when it comes to trying to prosecute for any such breach, they are doomed to failure.


All very nice and interesting if and when the council decide to go to court but what would your advise be to the drivers who have already been suspended and the ones that are still under threat of suspension?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:24 pm 
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Nigel wrote:
grandad wrote:
Wasn't this threat posted a while back? The council had told the drivers what would happen if they continued to over rank and the drivers chose to ignore the warnings.

So where the hell are we supposed to go?? are we supposed toride round all day burning fuel off at £1.18 a litre looking for a rank space??? Get yourself here and see the trouble them dim whits are causing.

You need to get out more youth.

I don't mind getting myself there to see the trouble.

Wednesdays are good for me; how does that suit you?

Also, which roads & streets are we talking about in which town, so I can have a look on Google Earth before I come over.

I love a bit of argy-bargy!! (not the Indian restaurant in 'enders though)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:27 pm 
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toots wrote:
Sussex wrote:
captain cab wrote:
Surely this does come down to councillors.......

I agree, which is why my waters are telling me that a national union has approached the council leader asking exactly what the f*** is going on.

Or words to that extent. :wink:

Your waters? Really...... :wink: :lol: :lol:

Don't you have your water telling you things Ms Toots?

You do have waters don't you?

:? :? :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:49 pm 
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
Nigel wrote:
grandad wrote:
Wasn't this threat posted a while back? The council had told the drivers what would happen if they continued to over rank and the drivers chose to ignore the warnings.

So where the hell are we supposed to go?? are we supposed toride round all day burning fuel off at £1.18 a litre looking for a rank space??? Get yourself here and see the trouble them dim whits are causing.

You need to get out more youth.

I don't mind getting myself there to see the trouble.

Wednesdays are good for me; how does that suit you?

Also, which roads & streets are we talking about in which town, so I can have a look on Google Earth before I come over.

I love a bit of argy-bargy!! (not the Indian restaurant in 'enders though)


Hi Brummy, it's Forest Street in Sutton in Ashfield outside Wetherspoons.

Here's the problem.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&l ... 20.99,,0,5


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:16 pm 
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Why are drivers over ranking on Forest street when there are empty spaces just around the corner in Fox street?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:53 pm 
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Nigel wrote:

I'll Email the link to Joanne Lindley Cap.


Can you email Joanne Lumley too, she's blocked me and I have a restraining order :wink:

CC

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:12 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Nigel wrote:

I'll Email the link to Joanne Lindley Cap.

Can you email Joanne Lumley too, she's blocked me and I have a restraining order :wink:

CC

I should think you do too!!

You Granny-grabber!!

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Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:25 pm 
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Brummie Cabbie wrote:
captain cab wrote:
Nigel wrote:

I'll Email the link to Joanne Lindley Cap.

Can you email Joanne Lumley too, she's blocked me and I have a restraining order :wink:

CC

I should think you so too!!

You Granny-grabber!!


mmmm Purdey

Image

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:45 am 
grandad wrote:
Why are drivers over ranking on Forest street when there are empty spaces just around the corner in Fox street?


There are no spaces if you look correctly. Half way down the street is a Council car park for the workers of Ashfield Homes, you can get 3 more cars in the space where the car park entrance is but it's double yellow lined.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:50 pm 
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Nigel wrote:
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
Nigel wrote:
grandad wrote:
Wasn't this threat posted a while back? The council had told the drivers what would happen if they continued to over rank and the drivers chose to ignore the warnings.

So where the hell are we supposed to go?? are we supposed toride round all day burning fuel off at £1.18 a litre looking for a rank space??? Get yourself here and see the trouble them dim whits are causing.

You need to get out more youth.

I don't mind getting myself there to see the trouble.

Wednesdays are good for me; how does that suit you?

Also, which roads & streets are we talking about in which town, so I can have a look on Google Earth before I come over.

I love a bit of argy-bargy!! (not the Indian restaurant in 'enders though)


Hi Brummy, it's Forest Street in Sutton in Ashfield outside Wetherspoons.

Here's the problem.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&l ... 20.99,,0,5

Is that a 4 cab rank on Forest Street that I can see on Google Earth?

Is that the rank we are taliking about?

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Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:52 am 
No mate you want the one near Wetherspoons, that one is across the road fromthe Crown and Woolpack.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:20 pm 
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Wayne Casey (Carlisle)

There was a bit of a discussion yesterday at our Annual General Meeting regarding Section 52 of the Road Safety Act 2006 whereby local authorities have got the power to immediately suspend drivers. Now everybody in this room knows the Government’s intentions when it originally gave local authorities these powers, however, it seems to be anecdotal evidence that this power is going beyond what we originally thought it was, therefore, and will the DfT be issuing guidance?

Paul Lawry

Well not at this point but what I would say in regard to this is, I know there are instances where decisions have been made that obviously aren’t in the interests of public safety. Now what I would I would like the trade to do collectively is give me some examples of what it is exactly that is happening out there because I can’t do anything on anecdotal evidence I need to actually back this up. You know, if there is a problem with a particular part of legislation then I am quite happy to take the evidence and we will go away and look at it but if that then means that we need to issue guidance then that is something that I am quite prepared to do but I need that evidence to come into the Department in a structured way first.

Wayne Casey (Carlisle)

The Chairman Paul who has a document from a group known as AGMA or as he likes to call them the Secret Society and they have brought a marvellous policy document which will instigate a driver who is caught illegally plying for hire being given an immediate suspension.

Paul Lawry

I am aware of that but as I say if you have got evidence that you can send in to me at the Department then fine, I am quite happy to take that evidence and if we need to review that and give some clear guidance to local authorities then so be it. I am quite happy to undertake that.

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:03 pm 
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Nigel wrote:
No mate you want the one near Wetherspoons, that one is across the road fromthe Crown and Woolpack.

Well it don't help when there are three Forest Streets in Sutton-in- Ashfield!!!

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Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:16 pm 
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Is it the rank opposite Parliament Street?

If not give me a two-point location please.

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Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:24 pm 
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Brummie Cabbie wrote:
Nigel wrote:
No mate you want the one near Wetherspoons, that one is across the road fromthe Crown and Woolpack.

Well it don't help when there are three Forest Streets in Sutton-in- Ashfield!!!


There was a link to it wasn't there further up the thread :?

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