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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:44 pm 
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Well my comment was a little tongue in cheek!

But in my Town we have a dominating PH company that are so big the council are frightened to death of ever crossing them, thus they cars park all over the place, pick up anyone they feel like, even in front of hacks, when we complain, we get the 2 fingered wave from the drivers.

The council do nothing.

We would be lucky to see a licence enforcement officer once a month! This company either buy out or shut down any kind of opposition thus making them bigger and bigger and sadly more powerful meaning when they want something, the council say when, when us hacks want something, the council say No, or can't afford it!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:49 pm 
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Location: Wirral
thelodger wrote:
Well my comment was a little tongue in cheek!

But in my Town we have a dominating PH company that are so big the council are frightened to death of ever crossing them, thus they cars park all over the place, pick up anyone they feel like, even in front of hacks, when we complain, we get the 2 fingered wave from the drivers.

The council do nothing.

We would be lucky to see a licence enforcement officer once a month! This company either buy out or shut down any kind of opposition thus making them bigger and bigger and sadly more powerful meaning when they want something, the council say when, when us hacks want something, the council say No, or can't afford it!


I can well believe it - no argument from me on that one.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:10 pm 
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WirralPH wrote:
toots wrote:
thelodger wrote:
Hackney drivers are professionals who has invested and completed a local knowledge test that is an asset to the local community.

With a few exceptions, PH are a group of drivers who either are wannabe hacks or pretend hackney drivers.......


I hate this kind of comment. PH drivers are profesionals who also invest money and knowledge, they are also an asset to the local community. So get off your high horse and stop coming across as something special. The only taxi drivers that may be considered special are those that give their free time for worthy causes. There are exceptions in both sides of the trade and yes I agree there are some PH drivers that don't play by the rules but there are some HC drivers that don't play by them either.


I, too, get very annoyed at these views. There are professionals and non-professionals working in both sides of the trade. Fact.

I am - as my username suggests - a private hire driver, but I am not 'anti-hack'. It's high time (though it won't happen any time soon in reality) that the PH vs HC saga ended and people worked to bring the trade together rather than further divide it. For example - I'd say that in the area where I work, we need a new body to represent the trade as a whole. My view is that we can be more effective together in bringing about change and working to improve our trade rather than having seperate organisations for HC and PH (or having none at all).

We have to realise ourselves that we shouldn't be working against one another, then we can stand together (yes, there will always be some differences - I realise that) and - with a united front - let the travelling public see that both sides of the trade are professional.

I know an experienced driver who has gone from PH to HC and back again, each time hoping to make more money etc. etc. So, according to thelodger, is this man a professional when he's driving a black cab and then when he returns to driving a PHV does he suddenly become an unprofessional, undesirable driver???

I, myself, have only been in the job a matter of months. Already, I've gone out and bought a new car for the job. I work hard, don't overcharge, offer assistance, I'm polite and friendly. Surely this adds up to me being a professional, even though I drive a Vectra and not a 'black cab'?

My dad has been a PH driver for 25 years. He's never had a complaint made against him, always kept a clean license - and a clean car! Surely he's a professional?

It's certainly not fair to say that HC drivers have invested in the trade and we - as PH - haven't. Outside my house tonight there are three new PH cars, all top-of-the-range, all clean. And, like it or not, they are all driven by professionals - who have passed local authority knowledge tests. There's a guy not too far from where I live drives a 15 year old Fairway. I'm not saying he's not a good driver (he probably is), but can you really say he's invested in the trade? I probably pay more monthly for my car than he would have paid to buy his outright.

All this said though, I do agree with Brummie Cabbie's point of view - where he says that standards of PH / Taxi vary greatly across the country with varying levels of enforcement. We - I would say - are in one of the 'tougher' areas for licensing. As a driver though, I would welcome more stringent checks on vehicles etc. Some of the cars are appalling! This would be for the good of everyone.

One last thing I will say is that perhaps some PH drivers are 'wannabe hack drivers', I don't know. All I do know is that there are many - myself, my brother, my dad included - that have no desire to be a HC driver. We are quite happy doing the job we do, offering the service that we offer and making a decent living. Why would we want to become HC drivers?


Perhaps the Wirral is the only place with decent PH in it :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:17 pm 
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Location: Wirral
toots wrote:
Perhaps the Wirral is the only place with decent PH in it :lol: :lol:


Maybe that's just it :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:04 pm 
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Location: London
Hi again everyone.

Thanks a lot for the replies, clarification and passionate discussion! I will also try and read up on the acts mentioned.

From what I have gathered so far, the difference between hackneys and PH/mini-cabs is pre-dominantly in the kind of license held (due to knowledge, commitment, or experience reasons) and regulation prohibiting the PH / mini-cab to be flagged.

I understand that the law requires PH / mini-cabs to be pre-booked. A law, as I understand, is made to protect or regulate some activity and has some background. What I am trying to do is understand, why the law stipulates that one can not flag a PH or mini-cab. Is it to protect hack business or is it due to security reasons. Because, the situation can be easily handled if its due to security reasons.

Wirral - I think I agree with you. In the day of GPS and SatNavs, having 'the knowledge' can not be the only reason for differentiation.

Sussex - good that you are intrigued. What has evoked my interest is the fact that two separate systems/businesses are being artificially promoted and regulated. When actually, it is the same system - I would find it extremely difficult to ensure/enforce that PH / mini-cabs do not get flagged and take on passengers.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:08 pm 
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My personal opinion.. is that they should do away with Hackney's/ private hire, and just have Hackney's.... then everybody could pick up off the roads.. mind you, in Sefton we would have over 3000 Hackney's working the road and stands.... oh what joy. imagine the council's problem with over ranking... simple answer to that... give everybody that is over ranking A knew fixed £100 penalty ticket... and even the police could join in... causing an obstruction..... we could all work a hundred hours a week just to pay the fines..... and as for the radio circuits.... oh what joy for them... everybody's struggling working the road.... I wonder how much the radio sets would be then..... I think I might just invest in a radio system....

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:01 pm 
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TeezJ wrote:
Sussex - good that you are intrigued. What has evoked my interest is the fact that two separate systems/businesses are being artificially promoted and regulated. When actually, it is the same system - I would find it extremely difficult to ensure/enforce that PH / mini-cabs do not get flagged and take on passengers.

Well they are two distinct systems, it's just that the taxi side has legally encroached into the PH side, and the PH side has illegally encroached into the taxi side.

There has been calls for a one-tier system, but that will never happen.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:29 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
TeezJ wrote:
Sussex - good that you are intrigued. What has evoked my interest is the fact that two separate systems/businesses are being artificially promoted and regulated. When actually, it is the same system - I would find it extremely difficult to ensure/enforce that PH / mini-cabs do not get flagged and take on passengers.

Well they are two distinct systems, it's just that the taxi side has legally encroached into the PH side, and the PH side has illegally encroached into the taxi side.

There has been calls for a one-tier system, but that will never happen.
I think you'll find ... that Hackney's were using radio systems a long time before private hire came into existence....

http://www.thamesweb.co.uk/windsor/wind ... y1963.html

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:13 pm 
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Thanks again for the inputs. Mr.T - I think I agree with you, only due to the time and resources that are going into maintaining the two systems. However, not for me to decide :)

What I am majorly concerned about is, if one hasn't pre-booked and they are out at 1am on the street in cold London, it is more likely that they would get in the next cab that rolls along rather than text to a certain number (cabwise), get 3 phone numbers in return - call them up and wait for a cab to show up. And what can one do to help (or try to) prevent any crime from happening - either to the cab driver or passenger.

Any thoughts?[/quote]


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:02 pm 
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Your dealing with the public that at that time of the morning just want to get home they would get in a 7 tonne army lorry if it was going their way! :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:26 pm 
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MR T wrote:
My personal opinion.. is that they should do away with Hackney's/ private hire, and just have Hackney's.... then everybody could pick up off the roads.. mind you, in Sefton we would have over 3000 Hackney's working the road and stands.... oh what joy. imagine the council's problem with over ranking... simple answer to that... give everybody that is over ranking A knew fixed £100 penalty ticket... and even the police could join in... causing an obstruction..... we could all work a hundred hours a week just to pay the fines..... and as for the radio circuits.... oh what joy for them... everybody's struggling working the road.... I wonder how much the radio sets would be then..... I think I might just invest in a radio system....


im not a MENSA candidate but if every plate was "hackney" (you say 3000) wouldnt it be possible to have different coloured plates and ranks allocated daily by the colour of the plate, resulting in any vehicle able to take a flag down and work a circuit but only rank up on offial ranks on thier allocated days....

im sure the salaries paid to council staff should throw up at least 1 with an IQ able to deal with it or do better....


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:10 pm 
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MR T wrote:
I think you'll find ... that Hackney's were using radio systems a long time before private hire came into existence....

But PH existed long before the 1847 act, as said act says a taxi isn't one of those ghastly Stage-Coaches. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:12 pm 
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TeezJ wrote:
Any thoughts?

Not a popular suggestion, but get rid of the knowledge and allow cab drivers to license saloon vehicles.

That's the answer to your problem, however I'm certain it will never happen.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:56 pm 
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I still maintain that part of the problem (ref-PH taking flagdowns) is the fragmented region-by-region attitudes to PH signage

if its PRIVATE hire (hint in the big letters) why plaster them with door signs, stickers and (in some cases) even rooflights?

if LAs can have "plate exemption" for some operators why not all? joe public see a car with signs and bingo, it must be a taxi!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:09 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
MR T wrote:
I think you'll find ... that Hackney's were using radio systems a long time before private hire came into existence....

But PH existed long before the 1847 act, as said act says a taxi isn't one of those ghastly Stage-Coaches. :wink:
I have no recollection of how people contacted private hire companies before the invention of telephones and radio .... your ghostly knowledge of stagecoaches and I can only assume pigeons and smoke signals far surpasses mine .

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