Taxi Driver Online

Are LTI set for a rude awakening in Leicester? (13/12/2005)

Some might say London Taxis International have crossed the line by taking joint legal action with Swift Taxis against a decision by Leicester city council to allow other vehicle types to ply for hire on the streets of Leicester? This move is unlikely to surprise many people involved in the UK Taxi trade but one wonders what LTI hope to gain from this action?

The motives of Swift Taxis are understandable because in the main they are fighting against a change in licensing conditions that provide for "all replacement hackney carriage vehicles to be black in colour". No doubt Swift taxis believe this "new condition" will conflict with their current business model because all their vehicles just happen to be yellow.

For some considerable time Swift Taxis have been trying to persuade Leicester city council to relax their new colour policy because they believe the condition is unfair. Mr Norton the owner of Swift Taxis informed me that he has modelled his business on the famous New York Yellow cabs and that the distinctive yellow livery has become an established feature of the Leicester Taxi trade.

I asked Mr Norton why he ventured into bed with LTI instead of independently fighting the council on the single issue of colour? He told me "the joint legal action with LTI was hatched on a recent visit to one of their factories" and that it was he who suggested the idea? I suspect LTI didn't need much persuading to join forces with Mr Norton because I doubt they would want their dominance of the Leicester Hackney carriage market diluted.

You can see from the following letter sent to Edinburgh City Council in spring 2004 by Christopher Kelsey LTI Government Affairs Director, that they are quite aggressive when it comes to retaining market share.

Mr Kelsey makes some interesting revelations in his letter to Edinburgh City council but I shall let you be the judge as to their accuracy? The letter is in response to a committee decision taken in 2004 by Edinburgh city council recommending the licensing of the E7. LTI did not like the decision so they wrote to CEC outlining why the Taxi trade in Edinburgh should not be allowed the choice of an alternative vehicle that did not have a 25ft turning circle.

It is significant that to this day, the E7 is still absent from the streets of Edinburgh.

RE: Request for Deputation - Executive Committee Mtg, Tuesday 4 May 2004, l0 am?

Further to the Regulatory Committee's decision yesterday on the casting vote of the Vice Convenor. (The committee was split 3 v 3 on this issue) To recommend to the Executive Committee that Edinburgh City Council remove the current requirement for taxis in Edinburgh to be able turn within 25 ft. (Condition 18 1) set out in the City's licensing conditions published in June 2002.

This email is to confirm our request for a deputation at the Executive meeting, where this application by Allied Vehicles is to be discussed. Could you and or Henry Scullion and/or Rhona Sinclair also ensure I am sent all the relevant papers ahead of the meeting? Many thanks in advance.

My contact details are set out at the foot of this email. I believe this meeting is scheduled for Tuesday 4 May 2004 at 1O am at City Chambers? Could you confirm the date (particularly with the Bank Holiday) and venue for me?



If it is not this date, please could this deputation request stand for whenever the next meeting of the Executive Committee takes place to discuss this important matter and let me know when this meeting will be?

Many thanks in advance.

Brief summary of our case:

As you know there is much at stake with this decision not least the future on an Edinburgh symbol, public safety and public interest. We are not sure why, given the Edinburgh taxi trade do not want the Allied Vehicle licensed as a taxi (in a recent Central Taxis poll 75% of drivers were against it and 25% in favour) AND the people of Edinburgh do not want it.

(YouGov survey of a representative sample of people who live and work Edinburgh in early April 2004: "93% agreed the shape of Edinburgh taxis allows me to distinguish between taxis and other types of vehicle" copy attached). The Regulatory Committee voted, on the casting vote of the Chair, to recommend to the Exec that Edinburgh's rules are changed to suit this vehicle.

The key issue seems to be that of public safety; that is if the turning circle is abolished then a vehicle type (Peugeot Expert Combi base vehicle) that is already licensed in Edinburgh as a Private Hire Vehicle (PHV), will be licensed as a taxi as well. Creating confusion among the public about what is and what isn't a taxi and what they can and cannot hail, particularly on a dark winter's night after a couple of alcoholic drinks! At the moment no such confusion exists because of the distinctive shape of the purpose built taxi.

It seems that if condition 181 is removed then 46A will have to be removed also, If the same type of vehicle is licensed as a taxi AND PHV then we might be forced to remove the 'for hire' from our vehicle and sell it as a PHV as, frankly, we need the sales to ensure the continued viability of our business.

We think U-turns are safer than 3-point turns. The RAC Foundation I British School of Motoring (BSM) view is that: "If it is vital and is done with care and observation all round, then a u-turn is less dangerous than a 3-point turn because it is done in one movement." This turning circle also allows the taxi to manoeuvre better in heavy traffic and in city streets, and allows it to enter hotel entrances and Waverley Station with greater ability than other vehicles. It also allows a passenger to be picked up from the opposite side of the street with minimal traffic disruption, as one of the reasons for the incorporation of the turning circle into the conditions, is to help prevent accidents by obviating the need for the passenger to cross the road when hailing an oncoming taxi.

As discussed, if the matter is discussed on Tuesday 4 May 2004 I will not be able to attend in person as I will be on honeymoon. Therefore the LTI deputation will be made up of Matthew Cheyne, LTI Sales and Marketing Director; Andrew Overton, Market Development Consultant; and John Loudon, Consultant at Dundas & Wilson CS. Many thanks in advance for your help in this matter. I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards
Chris Kelsey


Of course, one of the major obstacles that LTI has to overcome is the Law? I have doubts that LTI would have been able to obtain an injunction without the help of Swift Taxis and the overriding factor that they were the aggrieved party by virtue of not being consulted by Leicester City council on their change of policy.

It could hardly be said that LTI could be aggrieved because in essence they are not being excluded or prohibited from selling their vehicles to the Leicester taxi trade. However this injunction does highlight the fact that administrative bodies when making policy decisions should always consult with those that might be effected?

Leicester City council has now been advised by their legal department to consult with interested parties before making any policy change. In January 2006 a consultation report will be presented to the relevant committee followed by a full consultation with all interested parties. I have no doubt whatsoever that councillors will eventually allow other vehicles types to ply for hire on the streets of Leicester?

Swift Taxis on the other hand will no doubt take great comfort from the recent Durham Crown court decision to refuse an appeal application by Durham council to have all their hackney carriage vehicles painted white.

There is ample case law, which suggests LTI will fail in their bid to stop other vehicles being licensed but the outcome of the disputed colour code of Swift Taxis is definitely in the balance.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

With the recent observation of Durham Crown court regarding colour code and the decision taken some eighteen months ago in respect of Stockport's colour code, it will be intertesting to see how Leicester city council approach the colour situation?

LTI are definately on a hiding to nothing and come spring I expect the boys in Leicester will have several options to choose from and not just two. Sometime next year City of Edinburgh council will decide the fate of the E7 so time is definately not standing still.

The times they are a changing.

Regards

JD

"Sometime next year City of Edinburgh council will decide the fate of the E7 so time is definately not standing still.

The times they are a changing.

Regards

JD" regulatory commitee jan they will be changing 25ft rules closely followed by LTI pushing for a judicial review

That information is most welcome Diesel thank you very much.

Regards

JD

As usual, it's surely not just a question of whether or not a majority of a group favour it or not. The LTI approach is effectively the same as saying that if most drivers prefer the Mondeo to the Vectra then those who prefer the latter shouldn't be allowed to buy it.



Well that much is obvious, but I suspect that if you showed most people an alternative vehicle and asked them if they could distinguish it from other vehicles then the vast majority would agree.



Again, I don't think the alternatives necessarily preclude this, but in any case the more relevant point about the consumption of alcohol is that many just aren't bothered what they get into after a few drinks.



No chance!



Probably, but if the turning circle encourages vehicles to do a U-turn when they wouldn't turn in the road at all then to that extent it's more dangerous - I think that was the point made by the Transport Research Laboratory.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

On the assumption that your opinion is correct, then I wonder why LTI bothered - did they just think that if the sabre-rattled a bit then the LCC lapdog would just roll over and let LTI tickle its tummy?

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

For the record I think the bowler hats should remain the only cabs available. The amount of work we get from customers who don't like the icon, but love a Merc or two, is considerable.

And we don't want that work going back, do we?

Ollie

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Happy to be legit.

This has been sent to info@taxi-driver.co.uk by Chris Kelsey of LTI.

Alex


Sir

LTI comments

FYI

Just seen the debate below. No doubt Allied have fed their views in on this already. I would just add:

LTI is not against competition. LTI favours competition but fair competition. Relaxing the Conditions of Fitness in London, Leicester and Edinburgh and elsewhere to allow alternative, non purpose built taxi vehicles to be used as taxis, the converters of which have chosen not to make the required investments to comply with the requirements of the existing Conditions of Fitness, would give the converters of the alternative vehicles (AVs) an unfair competitive advantage over LTI which has made all of the investments necessary over many years to comply.

Specifically on Leicester if the Council decide to change their regs to allow in AVs after due consultation with the trade and other stakeholders and due consideration, that is their democratic right and we will accept that. But we will put our case robustly during any review as you would expect in a democracy, as there is much at stake; not least people's jobs and an icon product.

You will know that in Leicester LTI decided to NOT object to the second E7 license. It was never our intention to penalise the taxi drivers who bought an E7 in good faith. Our grievance is not with them but with Council not following rules and converters trying to get their conversions in by back door....

IF the Conditions of Fitness in London are lowered to allow in AVs the effect of the change can be summarised:

i) Potentially the deathknell of the famous London taxi. That is if Allied Vehicles succeed in their bid to lower standards to suit their business plan, and gain say only 10% of the London taxi market LTI and Metrocab would almost certainly go out of business in the medium to longer term. That is they could not meet their factory overheads as their businesses are so volume sensitive and they are operating on tiny volumes as it is. LTI makes 2,500 per year. Metrocab a few hundred a year. Nissan make 300,000 Micras at the Sunderland plant alone. Neither LTI nor Metrocab can really afford any further drop in sales in the core metropolitan markets and this famous iconic "moving London landmark" would be lost forever.

ii) If LTI go out of business drivers of course would see an immediate drop in the residual value of their vehicle as was the case with Rover recently. Before Longbridge went down a new Rover 25 cost around £12,500. Now you can pick one up with delivery miles on the clock for less than £7,000.

iii) The death of the purpose built taxi and its replacement by AVs would also mean confusion for passengers (the most important people at the end of the day) as to what is and what isn't a taxi and what they could and couldn't hail safely.

I hope this is useful.

Compliments of the season.

Kind regards

Chris Kelsey

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What rubbish that LTI man says. When the Metrocab came on the market. it was instantly reconised by the riding public. Why? because it had an illuminated sign on the front of the roof that said 'TAXI'. Also it received publicity.
The main objection is the 25' turning circle.
If anyone can remember the Triumph Herald. That had a better turning circle than my old FX4.
So it is not imposible that another manufacturer could enter the market. (I wish).

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Make trafic wardens redundant. PARK LEGALLY.
Congestion charge! Before it was free.

so you are a charity case then?
and we are all told to pay to keep you going.
please remind me we are in the year 2005 (just) and a free market is meant to be happening.

In my opinion any business that will close if it losses 10% of it's market, is not a very healthy one.

But isn't the market for WAVs going to grow over the next 10 years?

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IDFIMH

Could Chris kelsey have a more sinister motive for not wanting the E7 on the road??? I think he does and that is he wants you to pay 30k for a cab that has a totaly crap ford engin, only does 27mpg and the E7 is 10k cheaper and get 40mpg

As a subsidiary of a plc, LTI's primary motive is to make a profit for its shareholders, and this is cleary facilitated by retaining its effective monopoly.

I'm not sure if I would call this motive 'sinister' though

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Couldn't agree more chap.

You keep on charging them the earth for a dated car, whilst we offer their customers what they want.

Ollie

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Happy to be legit.

I have to agree with you Ollie on this one.

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Make trafic wardens redundant. PARK LEGALLY.
Congestion charge! Before it was free.