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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 6:24 pm 
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Taxi drivers may be forced to carry card machines

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4nj5nrp0qjo

Taxi drivers in parts of Kent may be forced to carry card machines as three councils consider making them mandatory.

Tunbridge Wells, Maidstone and Sevenoaks councils have voted to consult the public and the trade about making card readers compulsory.

The move has split opinion, with some drivers raising concerns over poor internet connection.

Maidstone councillor and licensed carriage driver Ashleigh Kimmance said: “We’ve got to go with the times.”

Under the proposals by Tunbridge Wells Borough Council, drivers who don’t carry card machines could get nine points on their council taxi licence.

If a driver receives 12 points in two years, they would be called before a council committee and could face punishment.

Customers would still have the option to pay using cash.

'No internet connection'

Shujaullah Baraki, chairman of the Tunbridge Wells Hackney Drivers Association, said he and many other drivers already accept card payments, but often transactions don’t go through.

“The problem is that we’re living in a town that is uneven and we have lots of places where there is no internet connection,” he said.

“If it’s mandatory, it will be trouble.”

He also argued that mandatory card machines could negatively impact tips that drivers receive.

“Before, if a journey was £4.80, they give us £5 and we say thank you – that 20p is for my tip,” he added.

However, Mr Kimmance said modern card machines offer customers the option to tip.

“At the end of the day, we’ve got to move forward,” he said.

In Kent, only Canterbury City Council has a policy that taxi drivers must carry card machines.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 6:28 pm 
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Shujaullah Baraki, chairman of the Tunbridge Wells Hackney Drivers Association, said he and many other drivers already accept card payments, but often transactions don’t go through.

“The problem is that we’re living in a town that is uneven and we have lots of places where there is no internet connection,” he said.

“If it’s mandatory, it will be trouble.”

So what happens now then when you pick up a punter who only has a card, in those internet iffy areas?

Do you give the punter a free ride, or do you take them to cash point or make other arrangements?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 3:36 am 
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For what it's worth, this is an expanded version of the article above. Most of it is just expanded version of the stuff above, but it also includes a brief statement from the NPHTA's David Lawrie.

Some merit in what he says, but I think it's grossly overdone. And I somehow thought that the NPHTA would be in favour. Or, at least, I'd have thought that their bigger members would be in favour, so presumably the minnows have a bit of clout as regards the organisations stance on card readers.

Or maybe the big players who accept cards don't want them made compulsory because it would steal their thunder a wee bit.


Taxi drivers in Maidstone, Sevenoaks and Tunbridge Wells could be forced to take card payments

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/ ... ts-294207/

Taxi drivers in parts of Kent may be forced to carry card machines as three councils consider making them mandatory.

Maidstone, Tunbridge Wells and Sevenoaks councils are all considering making card readers compulsory in cabs.

TWBC will hold a public consultation before making a final decision in November.

Under TWBC’s proposals, drivers who don’t carry card machines could get nine points on their council taxi licence.

If they get 12 within two years they’re called before a council committee and can face punishment.

On September 14, Maidstone Borough Council’s (MBC) licensing committee voted unanimously to consult on the change.

A report cited “a growing number of complaints from members of the public in relation to the lack of hackney carriage vehicles offering card payment facilities or alternative cashless options”.

MBC’s consultation will start in October, with a final decision due in January 2024.

On September 20, Sevenoaks District Council’s (SDC) licensing committee also voted unanimously to consult on mandating that taxi and private hire drivers carry the devices.

Under SDC’s plans, failure to have a working card machine would result in a penalty of two points a day for each day the driver doesn’t have one.

In Sevenoaks, if a driver gets 12 points in 12 months action can be taken against them.

Subject to the consultation, the rules will take effect from April 2024.

However, some drivers don’t back the idea.

Shujaullah Baraki, chairman of the Tunbridge Wells Hackney Drivers Association, says he and many other drivers already take card payments, but added: “If it is mandatory it will be trouble.”

“The problem is that we’re living in a town that is uneven and we have lots of places where there is not internet connection and we can't take their money when we’re there, the transactions don’t go through,” continued Mr Baraki, who works as a driver for Taxi Line.

He explained how in rural areas such as Goudhurst, Lamberhurst and Rusthall, and even some parts of Tunbridge Wells, poor signal means card machines often fail.

Mr Baraki argues that drivers should simply put badges on their cars indicating whether or not they take cards.

He also says mandatory card machines eat into both drivers’ tips and their regular revenue through transaction fees.

“Before, a journey was for £4.80, they give us five pounds and we say thank you - that 20p is for my tip, or if a journey is £8 or £9 they give you £10.

“At the end of the day I have like £8, £9, £10, £15 that kind of money as tip.”

Using card machines, “I’m losing £10 in the tips, and I’m losing £5 for the transactions,” he added.

Other cabbies have welcomed the plans.

Cllr Ashleigh Kimmance (Lib Dem), a Maidstone borough councillor and licensed hackney carriage driver of more than 35 years, said: “At the end of the day we’ve got to move forward, we’ve got to go with the times.

Image
Image: AndyJones/Kent Online

“As a professional in the trade and also as a councillor I do believe that it should be mandatory for the black cab drivers to carry a machine.”

He thinks that with modern technology the machines are no longer an imposition on drivers, compared to when they were “the size of a suitcase”.

Cllr Kimmance says the transaction fee is “minuscule” and card machines such as his provide customers the option to tip.

David Lawrie, director of the National Private Hire and Taxi Association, is also against mandatory card machines.

Image
Image: Kent Online

“In reality, licensing officers and panels understand very little about the industry when making these decisions”, he told the Local Democracy Reporting Service (LDRS).

“As an industry, most vehicles and drivers already have card machines or indeed pay-by-app installed into their phones in order to accommodate wherever possible, those who wish to pay by card,” he continued.

The machines’ transaction fees “effectively take a cut, however small a percentage, out of each fare, a cost which by law may not be passed on to the card user”, he said.

He also said that many council’s policies require drivers to keep the machine working at all times, which can leave them open to punishment from councils for technological problems which aren’t their fault.

He went on: “Whilst we support and encourage all members to have such a facility, we feel that mandating it is over the top, and the conditions attached to it are over and above anything that may be reasonable.

“We have even come across some councils that stipulate which card machine providers may be used.”

Across Kent, only Canterbury City Council has a policy that taxi drivers must carry card machines.

Medway Council voted in August to make them mandatory but the change is yet to be approved by the full council.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 3:37 am 
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Shujaullah Baraki, chairman of the Tunbridge Wells Hackney Drivers Association wrote:
“Before, a journey was for £4.80, they give us five pounds and we say thank you - that 20p is for my tip, or if a journey is £8 or £9 they give you £10.[...]

Using card machines, “I’m losing £10 in the tips, and I’m losing £5 for the transactions,” he added.

Can't disagree with what he's saying in principle, but when it's mostly students here I'd sometimes have been tight to get a tip at all during a shift, even when it was all cash :o

And if he's losing £5 per shift in card transactions then I'd be happy to pay that - that's about £400 in fares :lol:

Quote:
Cllr Kimmance says the transaction fee is “minuscule” and card machines such as his provide customers the option to tip.

Kind of agree with this councillor (who just happens to be an HCD) about the fees (although it does add up), but he's either missing the point about the tip option, or he's misrepresenting things, or he's got a very brass neck - chances of me effectively asking punters if they'd like to tip me are zero.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 3:47 am 
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Quote:
Mr Baraki argues that drivers should simply put badges on their cars indicating whether or not they take cards.

That would actually be a good idea, in principle at least, even if it might not work so well in practice.

But if each car had to have some sort of sign saying whether or not they took cards, it would stop the cherry-picking pretence of drivers saying they don't have a card reader when they do, or they only take cards on longer trips etc.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 3:53 am 
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Quote:
[The NPHTA's David Lawrie] also said that many council’s policies require drivers to keep the machine working at all times, which can leave them open to punishment from councils for technological problems which aren’t their fault.

He went on: “Whilst we support and encourage all members to have such a facility, we feel that mandating it is over the top, and the conditions attached to it are over and above anything that may be reasonable.

Problem is that if you want to get rid of the cherry-picking, confusion and conflict, then you have to have a reasonably stringent set of rules in place to support the basic principle of mandatory card readers, or the cherry-picking would just continue.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 7:51 pm 
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What some drivers, and maybe some national reps, forget is that having a card reader stops punters using the app companies.

Kids want to use cards, they don't use cash anymore.

The fella moaning about the lost £5, is clearly oblivious to the lost amount of punters.

And how many scumbags are going to rob a driver for their digital takings?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:56 pm 
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Have seen a few moans on social media about 'cash only' cabs in Glasgow. Personally, I'd sooner take a card hire than no hire. About 35% of my work in the last month was card.

I'd need to check back to be sure, but think card tends to be the fare only - a few will say to round up.

SumUp with a weekly pay out works for me. Don't think I'd like to be told to use a specified terminal (like in London)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 5:04 pm 
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Seems to me you could fully comply by having a Card Reader.

You could then refuse to use it, as they don't seem to have mandated use.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 1:38 pm 
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Chris the Fish wrote:
Seems to me you could fully comply by having a Card Reader.

You could then refuse to use it, as they don't seem to have mandated use.


Until the council receives a complaint and the driver is asked to make an appearance :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:48 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Quote:
Shujaullah Baraki, chairman of the Tunbridge Wells Hackney Drivers Association, said he and many other drivers already accept card payments, but often transactions don’t go through.

“The problem is that we’re living in a town that is uneven and we have lots of places where there is no internet connection,” he said.

“If it’s mandatory, it will be trouble.”

So what happens now then when you pick up a punter who only has a card, in those internet iffy areas?

Do you give the punter a free ride, or do you take them to cash point or make other arrangements?

We send them a payment link so they can pay us when there is a signal.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 11:39 pm 
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As a former Kent PH driver working on the Romney Marsh, the phone signal was and still is bloody awful in most of the area. where I now live just 4 miles east of Ashford, a mile south of the international highway known as the M20, there is no phone signal. Not at home, in the local villages, on the main A20 and M20. On the marsh it's even worse. As far as I remember there's only about 6 cash machines on the marsh, an area the size of Greater London. How on earth they expect the entire world to revolve around digital technology when there's no signal is a mystery.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:27 pm 
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If there is an area where the phone signal is non-existent then that would be a reasonable excuse to refuse card payment and only accept cash.

Or the council must allow payment in advance, allowing customers to pay by card on departure.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 6:19 pm 
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Taxis must accept card payments in Medway after council vote

All taxis will be required to offer card payments after unanimous agreement at a full council meeting last night.

Councillors said it was a necessary step to provide greater safety to locals, as many residents had said they had been turned away from taxis because they wanted to use cards instead of cash.

There was cross-party support for the proposal as members from all sides said it was important no-one would get stranded late at night, particularly young women on their own.

Cllr Dan McDonald (Lab), who introduced the item, said: “Firstly I would like to express our gratitude to the taxi trade for their willingness to adopt this change.

“Taxis and private hire drivers are often the forgotten essential link in our transport system, serving Medway residents 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

“Promoting contactless payments aligns with our commitment to inclusivity and accessibility. For individuals with mobility challenges or who may struggle with handling cash, having the option for contactless payments ensures they can access taxi services with ease.”

Cllr Matt Fearn (Con) said: “It was very reassuring to hear that the Medway Licensed Taxi Drivers’ Association had held drop-in sessions for the trade to receive guidance on using [card readers].

“Whilst I appreciate that there is cost associated with the card payment facility, I see a big step in the right direction addressing the safety for all, but especially for the vulnerable passengers late at night.”

Some councillors raised issues of connectivity blackspots, particularly in rural areas, which may pose a problem but were reassured this was being investigated and procedures for mitigation were being explored.

No date is currently set for when the mandate for card readers will come into effect.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 6:19 pm 
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Quote:
“Taxis and private hire drivers are often the forgotten essential link in our transport system,

Some say often, I say always.

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