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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:51 pm 
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This is the statement from TfL to TaxiPoint about the cross-border stuff.

TaxiPoint wrote:
TfL said in a statement to TaxiPoint: “While lawful in specific circumstances, we believe cross-border hiring potentially presents serious safety risks to passengers and other road users due to the limited enforcement and inspection these drivers and vehicles are subject to when operating outside of the area they are licensed in. Furthermore, we have spent considerable time reviewing and enhancing the regulations in London to ensure passenger safety and to ensure that taxi and private hire services are fit for the diverse city we serve. These regulations are potentially being undermined, the market distorted, and therefore passenger safety compromised by the loophole in the current legislation being exploited.

“As such we have, for a number of years, maintained our position that we would like the Government to bring forward legislation that ensures a journey starts or finishes in the area where a licence was granted, ending cross-border hiring. We wrote a detailed policy paper on this topic in 2018 setting out proposals for change. In 2019, the Government committed to giving this topic consideration and we remain open to working with Government to stop this unsafe practice.”

I kind of read that as referring mainly to TfL cars working elsewhere. So interesting to compare that about TfL's own cars as opposed to the Wolverhampton Council stuff about its own cars working elsewhere [-X


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:52 pm 
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...but TaxiPoint have another article about an FOI request, which does directly address the Wolves issue. And which, by officialspeak standards, doesn't hold back :-o

And good work by TaxiPoint =D>


REVEALED: TfL concern as over 300 Wolverhampton licensed PHV drivers ‘undermine key objectives’

https://www.taxi-point.co.uk/post/revea ... objectives

Transport for London (TfL) contacted the Government after concerns over 300 Wolverhampton licensed private hire drivers living in the capital ‘actively undermining key objectives for TfL’.

In a revealing letter from Helen Chapman, TfL’s Director for Licensing & Regulation, addressed to the Department for Transport (DfT), it sheds light on concerns around cross-border licensing practices and their potential impact on public safety.

The letter, obtained through a Freedom of Information (FOI) request, highlights the issue of drivers and operators obtaining licenses from other authorities to circumvent London's licensing requirements.

The letter acknowledges that the City of Wolverhampton Council has emerged as the second largest licensing authority in the country, with over 300 drivers licensed by Wolverhampton being residents of London. It also notes that several London-based private hire (PH) operators have obtained licenses from Wolverhampton and other authorities, raising serious questions about compliance and public safety implications.

TfL expresses concerns that this activity is an attempt to evade London's stringent licensing standards and compliance measures. TfL are concerned that these drivers and vehicles may undermine key objectives such as reducing congestion, improving air quality, and achieving Vision Zero goals for road safety.

The ongoing concerns nationwide have triggered discussions about the need for comprehensive legislation to ensure consistent standards and promote public safety across different licensing jurisdictions. The Department for Transport are likely to face continued pressure to address the concerns and work towards a long-term solution that prioritises passenger safety and fair competition within the taxi and private hire industry.

It was revealed via a Freedom of Information (FOI), that a letter from Transport for London (TfL) was sent to the Department for Transport (DfT). The letter from Helen Chapman, TfL Director for Licensing & Regulation, said: “We understand that behind London, the City of Wolverhampton Council is now the second largest licensing authority in the country. We also understand that more than 300 drivers licensed by Wolverhampton are London residents. We are also aware of several London-based PH operators having obtained PH operator licences from other authorities, including Wolverhampton.

“We are concerned that this activity is an attempt to avoid London's licensing requirements and compliance activity and are concerned about the public safety implications of this practice. Furthermore, drivers and vehicles which do not conform to our licensing standards are actively undermining key objectives for TfL including cleaning London's air, reducing congestion and delivering our Vision Zero ambitions.

“The difference in licensing requirements is also leading to unfair competition for London licensed drivers, distorting the market and creating perverse incentives for licensees to seek out lower, easier to meet standards in authorities elsewhere.

“We have written to Wolverhampton Council to request shared powers under the DfT's Statutory Standards and to request that they urgently undertake joint compliance activity in London. However, we do not consider this is a permanent solution as it is unlikely Wolverhampton (and other authorities) have the resources available to provide a permanent 24/7 compliance presence in London.

“Unfortunately, without the necessary primary legislation, the root cause of this issue will remain and the risk to passenger safety will increase.

“We note that the Welsh government has recently consulted on introducing a legislative solution to cross-border-hiring between England and Wales. We maintain that legislation requiring a journey to start or finish in the licensing area that the three entities (operator, driver and vehicle) are licensed, would eliminate the issues highlighted in this letter.”


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:04 pm 
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Helen Chapman, TfL Director for Licensing & Regulation, wrote:
“We have written to Wolverhampton Council to request shared powers under the DfT's Statutory Standards and to request that they urgently undertake joint compliance activity in London. However, we do not consider this is a permanent solution as it is unlikely Wolverhampton (and other authorities) have the resources available to provide a permanent 24/7 compliance presence in London."

Try telling that to the likes of the licensing chair in Harlow :roll:

Helen Chapman, TfL Director for Licensing & Regulation, wrote:
“We note that the Welsh government has recently consulted on introducing a legislative solution to cross-border-hiring between England and Wales. We maintain that legislation requiring a journey to start or finish in the licensing area that the three entities (operator, driver and vehicle) are licensed, would eliminate the issues highlighted in this letter.”

Which, in essence, is the system that's been used in Scotland for decades [-(

But wouldn't that demolish the likes of Delta's business model that they've used on Merseyside for decades? And take us back to the Shanks v North Tyneside Borough Council scenario? :-o


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:31 pm 
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I'm not convinced the answer is the start or finish option. On paper it makes sense, but in reality in areas that share the same roads, it doesn't.

There are ways to deal with it, one would be to not have testing stations outside of the local area, alongside a 'predominantly' rule, maybe set at 80%. Or maybe a scheme that allows local licensing officers to bill the non-local cars council for checks.

Maybe £50 a time.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:58 am 
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I don't think many people are aware of at least one Insurance co that covers ph have stated that their insurance does Not cover vehicles operating outside their licensing area.
The whole cross border thing would fall apart if and when an Insurance co refused to payout where a claim is made.
Insurance companies are not known for their generosity to pay out.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:39 pm 
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cheshirebest wrote:
I don't think many people are aware of at least one Insurance co that covers ph have stated that their insurance does Not cover vehicles operating outside their licensing area.
The whole cross border thing would fall apart if and when an Insurance co refused to payout where a claim is made.
Insurance companies are not known for their generosity to pay out.

It's a valid point and would sort the issue overnight.

But I suspect the likes of Uber would source an insurance company somewhere to cover their cars.

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