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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:09 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
The wording isn't, IMO, as clear as many of us would wish it was.

Do those words just mean a driver must attend with his vehicle if the council requests he attend i.e. for a check following a complaint?

Or do they also imply that all tests should be within the licensing area? Including licensing tests?

I'm not sure which of the above a court would favour.

But it doesn't help if councils allow the world to check their vehicles.


Best practice guidelines state
Number Of Testing Stations. There is sometimes criticism that local authorities provide only one testing centre for their area (which may be geographically extensive). So it is good practice for local authorities to consider having more than one testing station. There could be an advantage in contracting out the testing work, and to different garages. In that way the licensing authority can benefit from competition in costs. (The Vehicle Operators and Standards Agency - VOSA - may be able to assist where there are local difficulties in provision of testing stations.)
It specifically states for there area


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:10 pm 
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grandad wrote:
heathcote wrote:
MR T wrote:
Wolverhampton, appoint testing stations all over the country so it’s easier for the driver and they don’t have to go back to Wolverhampton Question is, is it legal?


Vehicles must be tested in the district that grants the licence.
We had vehicles that could not be tested within our area so how were they supposed to be tested? They were tested by Nottingham City Council.


If they can’t test them they shouldn’t license them end of


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:18 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
An appointed testing station must be an approved MOT station which have to meet and maintain testing standards so why would a testing station in Manchester or sefton be any less or more rigorous than one in wolverhampton ?

If it was illegal and the public were being put at risk as a result would the practice not have been stopped by now ?


The public are being put at risk I know of one taxi company that tests there own Wolverhampton vehicles and Wolverhampton state there not allowed to but they have approved them, if I was asked to take my vehicle to be tested out of area I would refuse, I also see loads of wolves vehicles that don’t meet Wolverhampton regulations, I did see a few minutes ago one with the word taxi on the door not allowed according to Wolverhampton regulations. It appears to me perhaps wanna can tell us these tests are mots not taxi tests, no mot station can test a meter CCTV ect to the same standard. We have to follow the 1976act or we get prosecuted, unfortunately councils don’t follow the law only the ones they want to.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 3:01 pm 
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ManCityFan wrote:
It appears to me perhaps wanna can tell us these tests are mots not taxi tests, no mot station can test a meter CCTV ect to the same standard.

To be fair to Wolves, it's just PHV testing that's done out-of-area, so meter testing isn't really an issue.

By the same token, presumably the reason Wolves is so attractive to so many drivers is because it *doesn't* mandate or specify a CCTV system, therefore...

But otherwise interesting what you say about other aspects of testing, compliance and enforcement, which would be a good topic for further investigation by some person or organisation in the trade with a bit of clout...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 3:03 pm 
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...and thanks for posting the best practice stuff, MCF, which I'd forgotten about.

But I suspect that it wouldn't preclude testing out-of-area, assuming such practice was compliant with the law - the tenor of the best practice guidance seems all about maximising convenience and minimising costs for the trade, and to that extent having testing stations as close as possible to where the cars are working would seem to be consistent with that. Although, obviously, the guidance seems to presuppose the default scenario of locally-plated cars working locally rather than a hundred miles away :?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:23 pm 
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Section 50(1) Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 wrote:
Provisions as to proprietors

...the proprietor of any hackney carriage or of any private hire vehicle licensed by a district council shall present such hackney carriage or private hire vehicle for inspection and testing by or on behalf of the council within such period and at such place within the area of the council as they may by notice reasonably require...

Not saying I necessarily agree, but would guess Wolves would argue that from the licensing authority's perspective the above is optional rather than mandatory. So there's no obligation on the council to test cars within its area.

What the above does mean is that if proprietors are called for a test within the council area then they must comply. The heading suggests that the section is addressed primarily at vehicle proprietors rather than the licensing authority.

By the same token, presumably the section means that if Wolves calls a car operating in Blackpool for a test in Blackpool then the proprietor could refuse to comply, because the section above only gives the council the power to call cars for test in Wolverhampton.

But if a Blackpool proprietor refuses to attend a test in Blackpool, then Wolverhampton Council could force it to attend a test in Wolverhampton by virtue of the section above.

But, in practical terms, which proprietor in Blackpool running a Wolves-plated car is going to object to attending a test in Blackpool if Wolves Council could then force it to attend for inspection in Wolverhampton?

So in practical terms, it suits all parties involved.

And even if it's arguable that what Wolves Council is doing doesn't comply with the Act, what in practical terms can any aggrieved party do about it? Apply for judicial review, I'd imagine would be the way to go about it, but who's going to do that? Other local authorities? Competitor firms who use locally-plated cars?

Again, in practical terms, it looks highly unlikely that anyone is likely to have the resources or justification to challenge it - judicial review isn't for the faint-hearted, and requires deep pockets.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:40 am 
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Newcastle v Berwick Judge stated vehicles had to be tested in licensing district.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:04 am 
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Heathcote, all the Berwick judgment seems to do is repeat what's in section 50, and to that extent isn't really inconsistent with what I said earlier:

Paragraph 17 of the judgment (Newcastle Upon Tyne City Council) v Berwick Upon Tweed District Council wrote:
Section 50 of the 1976 Act requires the proprietors of hackney carriages to present their vehicle for inspection and testing “at such place within the area of the council5 as they may by notice reasonably require” and the authority can require inspection and testing up to 3 times in any 12 month period.

However, check out the number 5 half way through the passage above (which I've emphasised so it's easily spotted) which turns out to be some kind of footnote, but which isn't included in the text of the judgement on here.

Can't find it anywhere else, and annoyingly the site I found it on doesn't allow you to select and copy text, therefore this is a screengrab of Note 5:

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:07 am 
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...so basically it's not unlike the current scenario with the Wolverhampton cars. But the judge seems to be saying that it's not adhering to the spirit of the law, and thus seems to imply that it is consistent with the letter of the law, therefore it would be perfectly legal to inspect cars outside the council area.

(The English in the graphic is a bit clunky - presumably the word 'to' should appear between 'being adhered' and 'with stations'. Thus: "It was not clear to me how the spirit of Section 50 was being adhered [to] with stations outside the district...")


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 1:34 am 
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mancityfan wrote:
grandad wrote:
heathcote wrote:
MR T wrote:
Wolverhampton, appoint testing stations all over the country so it’s easier for the driver and they don’t have to go back to Wolverhampton Question is, is it legal?


Vehicles must be tested in the district that grants the licence.
We had vehicles that could not be tested within our area so how were they supposed to be tested? They were tested by Nottingham City Council.


If they can’t test them they shouldn’t license them end of

Hello, still about. It might be an idea if someone was to contact the Lord Mayor and ask him to get an opinion from one of them barristers they seem to have lots of just a thought

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 1:37 am 
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mancityfan wrote:
Sussex wrote:
The wording isn't, IMO, as clear as many of us would wish it was.

Do those words just mean a driver must attend with his vehicle if the council requests he attend i.e. for a check following a complaint?

Or do they also imply that all tests should be within the licensing area? Including licensing tests?

I'm not sure which of the above a court would favour.

But it doesn't help if councils allow the world to check their vehicles.


Best practice guidelines state
Number Of Testing Stations. There is sometimes criticism that local authorities provide only one testing centre for their area (which may be geographically extensive). So it is good practice for local authorities to consider having more than one testing station. There could be an advantage in contracting out the testing work, and to different garages. In that way the licensing authority can benefit from competition in costs. (The Vehicle Operators and Standards Agency - VOSA - may be able to assist where there are local difficulties in provision of testing stations.)
It specifically states for there area

Best practice guidelines are not laws They are just the opinion of a man who sits in an office in the Ministry of transport taxi division, he’s not even a bloody Solicitor

_________________
Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:42 pm 
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MR T wrote:
mancityfan wrote:
Sussex wrote:
The wording isn't, IMO, as clear as many of us would wish it was.

Do those words just mean a driver must attend with his vehicle if the council requests he attend i.e. for a check following a complaint?

Or do they also imply that all tests should be within the licensing area? Including licensing tests?

I'm not sure which of the above a court would favour.

But it doesn't help if councils allow the world to check their vehicles.


Best practice guidelines state
Number Of Testing Stations. There is sometimes criticism that local authorities provide only one testing centre for their area (which may be geographically extensive). So it is good practice for local authorities to consider having more than one testing station. There could be an advantage in contracting out the testing work, and to different garages. In that way the licensing authority can benefit from competition in costs. (The Vehicle Operators and Standards Agency - VOSA - may be able to assist where there are local difficulties in provision of testing stations.)
It specifically states for there area

Best practice guidelines are not laws They are just the opinion of a man who sits in an office in the Ministry of transport taxi division, he’s not even a bloody Solicitor


Obviously I know there only guidelines, my point was why put it in the 1976 act if you can test them anywhere, it would not need to be there, my guidelines point was supporting it, ok so I think we can all agree Wolverhampton have only enforceable powers in Wolverhampton, that’s why they Won’t license operators outside there area. So at Manchester airport they do checks on Wolverhampton vehicles but they have no authority to do so, there out there licensing area, only vosa has those powers, so what powers do outside Wolverhampton mot centre doing checks for Wolverhampton have.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 9:04 pm 
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mancityfan wrote:
MR T wrote:
mancityfan wrote:
Sussex wrote:
The wording isn't, IMO, as clear as many of us would wish it was.

Do those words just mean a driver must attend with his vehicle if the council requests he attend i.e. for a check following a complaint?

Or do they also imply that all tests should be within the licensing area? Including licensing tests?

I'm not sure which of the above a court would favour.

But it doesn't help if councils allow the world to check their vehicles.


Best practice guidelines state
Number Of Testing Stations. There is sometimes criticism that local authorities provide only one testing centre for their area (which may be geographically extensive). So it is good practice for local authorities to consider having more than one testing station. There could be an advantage in contracting out the testing work, and to different garages. In that way the licensing authority can benefit from competition in costs. (The Vehicle Operators and Standards Agency - VOSA - may be able to assist where there are local difficulties in provision of testing stations.)
It specifically states for there area

Best practice guidelines are not laws They are just the opinion of a man who sits in an office in the Ministry of transport taxi division, he’s not even a bloody Solicitor


Obviously I know there only guidelines, my point was why put it in the 1976 act if you can test them anywhere, it would not need to be there, my guidelines point was supporting it, ok so I think we can all agree Wolverhampton have only enforceable powers in Wolverhampton, that’s why they Won’t license operators outside there area. So at Manchester airport they do checks on Wolverhampton vehicles but they have no authority to do so, there out there licensing area, only vosa has those powers, so what powers do outside Wolverhampton mot centre doing checks for Wolverhampton have.

Maybe the local councils. Could lean on the testing stations, especially if they are testing local cars as well

_________________
Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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